Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am delighted to contribute to this debate and to make some brief comments on the changes in agriculture. I welcome the fact that my colleague and fellow Tipperary man is in the chair opposite as junior agriculture Minister.

I echo many of the points made by my colleague, Deputy Healy-Rae, about past times. The Minister of State, Deputy Hayes, will also remember because it is not 100 years ago or 50 years ago, it is about 30 or 35 years ago when we were all milking cows. Deputy Bannon has indicated how cows were milked. We all did it. We never got sore fingers and we had good muscles in our fingers and hands. We were well trained for canvassing because we had built up good muscles. That is the way it was.

I salute the small farmers and their wives and families. I am proud to say that I milked cows before I went to school and I went to the well for water to wash my hands after I had milked them. We were not paying for water at that time but it was a huge effort to bring the clean water. Things have moved on. Some farmers suffered huge penalties under the quotas but these have now been removed. Today there is a different attitude to agriculture. It is great that the quotas have been removed because they imposed serious penalties on some farmers. There were issues such as moving the milk and trying to remain under quota and swapping milk. Sin scéal eile. That is finished, imithe. Now we have a new system and farmers are up for the challenge, as always. The young farmers and medium-age farmers are up for the challenge, as with most agricultural schemes. They are rightly concerned about their grants being publicised on the website. When farmers get the grant money they spend it on investment and building works such as fitting out. They work diligently tending their stock and making sure that everything is above board.

I have concerns that some farmers have transferred from beef, cereals and elsewhere. This will mean a very great number of cows. I wish them well but I have concerns. We are facing into spring and I can remember only two short years ago that we had a savage spring which was very harsh. I remember going to the Roadstone AGM to know would they get involved in helping to transport some of the fodder from abroad. I have concerns that Teagasc has encouraged this changeover and the banks are shovelling out the money. This will work provided the milk price stays at current levels but if it does not there could be huge consequences. It is very important to support farmers but one needs to be cautious and to tread lightly. Deputy Healy-Rae referred to his father. I was never at a health board meeting with him but I know that the late Con Donovan was at many meetings with him and he was a practical man. That was the way they did their work and milked their cows, looked after their children, did their work and milked the cows again. It was a seven day week. I have a worry for some of the farmers who have gone into it because they are not used to a seven day week. One cannot set the corn and close the gate for two months and spray it when it is six inches over ground. A farmer has to be there in the morning - gach maidin agus gach oíche. I support the investment but I urge caution that we would not go overboard with investment. I am very disappointed. The former Minister, Phil Hogan, now Commissioner Hogan, announced some funding yesterday. I hope it is not like the last funding that was announced some months ago with cheap credit for farmers but it turns out that the two pillar banks got the money and the farmers must go to those pillar banks, Bank of Ireland and AIB. They are charging 6% interest. What is coming from Europe and what has been negotiated in Europe should not be given to these pillar banks who have led us down the Swannee several times and not played ball with anyone. They charge 6% interest on money coming in at 1% or 2%. They should be dealt with as well. Someone at some stage is going to have to call a halt and put manners on the bankers in this country. They are not supporting the innovative, industrious and hard-working farmers and small business people. Everything is fine and dandy until we have a bad spring and then the prices per litre do not materialise. This can happen quite easily. For example, a herd can be infected or anything can happen. I am concerned about those areas.

With regard to land eligibility, the Minister of State is from the village of Golden in the Golden Vale but I represent parts of Tipperary that are not as golden, not as luscious. I refer to hill sheep farmers and dairy farmers in the Knockmealdowns and the Galtees. This carry-on with the penalties is scandalous. They had been eligible for grant aid since they joined the scheme and now because of specialist mapping or filming they are finding a clash and a glin and a small pond or heather or whatever as Deputy Healy-Rae said and farmers are being penalised.

What justice system in the world would apply a 100% penalty in the case of a misdemeanour involving 20% eligibility? In such circumstances, how could anyone be deemed to be 100% guilty? This is a flagrant violation of human and civil rights.

I salute Deputy Healy-Rae and farmers in west Cork who are taking a case to court. The legal fund of €100,000 they have established may not go far in the justice system. Will the Government defend the case? Will it wheel out the Attorney General and all the other resources of the State to challenge farmers who signed up to a scheme in good faith? These farmers received grant aid under a scheme that included the necessary checks and balances. Why has everything suddenly changed? Did Big Brother decide to change the system? The farmers did not create culverts or streams, which are the product of an act of God and permanent features. Why is a small lake or pond no longer deemed eligible?

The cost of justice is prohibitive. The farmers in question must raise €100,000, which is a significant sum. They want to tend, rear and breed their stock, bring them to the mart and deliver milk to the creamery. They want to adhere to the guidelines and meet the strict criteria in place. They do not want to take court cases. If they turn up in court in numbers, will they be barred as occurred to those who went to a courthouse in Castlebar on Monday? This also happened in Waterford and other locations some months ago.

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