Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I have responded to the Deputy First Minister, Mr. McGuinness. He asked for a process to be put in place. I assume that means there would be an end to that process in any individual case. I presume that would mean a person or persons would be brought before the court and that the law would take its course. If an allegation is made about sexual abuse, either an individual case or in respect of an individual over a period, the process would be that if that person decides to speak out, he or she would be able to do so in a protected way and not be pressurised in any way subsequently. The situation from a legal point of view would be followed through, and if allegations are made against perpetrators, they would be brought before the authorities and a decision made on whether they are guilty or otherwise.

Two independent investigations are ongoing, undertaken by the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Office of the Ombudsman. The Minister for Justice and Equality is briefed by the Garda as needs be and in respect of whatever information comes to the Department of Justice and Equality.

I have no wish to prejudge a television programme which, I understand, is taking place this evening, but I understand when the person involved met a Garda superintendent in October last year, he was advised of the supports available to him. He subsequently made a formal complaint to the Garda and a criminal investigation was launched. That investigation is ongoing. My understanding is that the person involved said that he had been abused by a member of the Provisional IRA who stayed at his family home, which was then deemed to be a safe house. He said his life was threatened by the abuser. I understand he has also alleged that his brother was abused, but he declined to be public about that allegation and has not pursued a formal complaint with the Garda. He maintains that he alleged in the early 2000s that he brought the matter to the attention of a local councillor who arranged for what he called a process to be put in place to deal with the allegation and punish the alleged abuser. He and another victim, his brother, were brought before a number of republican members, including a named person who is a former member of the Provisional IRA, to be interviewed about their allegations. He says that he was offered a choice of punishments for the alleged abuser, including that he would be killed, and that he opted to have him exiled.

This is a kangaroo court operating outside the jurisdiction of a democracy and the remit of the law of the land as we know it. I am unsure whether Deputy Adams has any information or has been given any information about this, but this kind of situation is intolerable. It goes back to what Maíria Cahill made public with her remarks to the effect that hers was not the only case.

If we are dealing with a process involving these serious allegations, then I am prepared to work with the Northern Ireland Executive First Minister and Deputy First Minister, just as the Minister for Justice and Equality is with her counterpart, whether through the North-South Ministerial Council or whatever. It is not as simple as it sounds to set up an institution covering two jurisdictions with different legal systems. At the end of the day, if people are sexually abused over a period or threatened and pressurised, then we have to have a system of law that can deal with that. If the allegations being made by this individual are correct, then it was clearly on the instructions of a person or persons to have a court of punishment and interrogation, and that has nothing to do with the law of the land.

For my part, in replying to the Deputy First Minister, Mr. McGuinness, I would point out that there are two independent operations, Tusla and its remit as well as co-operation between the Garda and the PSNI. There is consultation between the Minister for Justice and Equality and the Minister of Justice in Northern Ireland, together with their respective Departments. Aside from that I do not believe we need an institution for cross-Border justice. It seems as if the allegations made are that such an institution was set up illegally with threats of death, exile and interrogation at the core of it.

If it is a process the Deputy First Minister is looking for, I believe that through all these elements, organisations and agencies operating strictly within the law, it should be possible to have a process of support generally for victims of sexual abuse in any community. It should also be possible for those who have the courage to speak out in respect of many of the details, circumstances and names, in some cases, of persons who are alleged to have committed the offences and put all of that together. I am perfectly happy to speak to the Deputy First Minister, Mr. McGuinness, arising from my response to him to see how this might best be done. However, that does not involve getting into legalities about the different legal systems and how this might operate.

In this case there are allegations about republican abuse or abuse by persons who were members of the Provisional IRA. If a young man or woman has been sexually abused, they have to carry that with them all their lives. We should try in every way we can to see that they get the support and counselling they need and deserve, and that where allegations can be proven, the law of the land takes its course in respect of those who might have committed those offences.

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