Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left) | Oireachtas source

I would like to make a few brief points. I recognise it is a very good thing that the committee has discussed this issue and I am glad to participate in this debate. I echo the points made by Deputy Wallace in regard to the former Minister, Deputy Shatter. It is an open secret that previous Ministers for Justice, such as Michael McDowell and Dermot Ahern, did not care about anybody who was in our prison system. They probably never met any of them, did not mix in their circles, did not really care what went on behind the prison walls and took no interest in that topic. The former Minister, Deputy Shatter, from the time he assumed office, took a very active interest in that area and was recognised throughout the Prison Service for that. Some of the measures which are at least on paper or are in law but not implemented are attributable to that work and that is certainly a good thing.

I also recognise the work done by the likes of the Penal Reform Trust but particularly by the Jesuits who have really pushed the boundaries on these issues. I do not disagree with anything in the report but it is probably not very radical when one thinks about it. It is now accepted in society that people should not be sent to prison for non-payment of fines. The idea of open prisons is to be welcomed. Overcrowding in prisons and the fact people who are in our prisons come from certain impoverished background has a huge bearing on that.

While it is all very well that we are inching forward in the right direction, not enough is being done. As is often the case, our actions and words are not in sync. For example, while it is welcome that prison conditions in Cork are being improved through the building of a new prison, the decision to provide for multiple occupancy cells in the new facility is a regressive step. Given that single occupancy cells are best practice, the plan to provide for multiple occupancy cells should not have been approved.

Conditions for women in prison have worsened. The number of prisoners in the Dóchas Centre is shocking. I spent a month in the centre about 12 years ago, which was not long after it opened. The Dóchas Centre was based on an enlightened ethos which was focused on rehabilitation, training and providing access to education and so forth. By the time I was imprisoned, however, many of the amenities were being under-utilised and the women did not have access to some educational facilities. There was also a revolving door in operation, with young women from very similar backgrounds being imprisoned, released and imprisoned again. In the overwhelming number of cases these women were victims of abuse and drug users. When they arrived in prison they were often in poor condition but their health would improve because they were in a secure environment in which they were provided with a couple of meals every day. After a short period of imprisonment, they were returned to the conditions from which they came, which was a complete waste of money.

I am an abolitionist when it comes to prisons in that I do not believe there is any legitimate reason for their use other than in the rare occasions where someone presents a security danger to himself, herself or others. The current focus on prisons starts with this very small number of people when they should be the last people to be dealt with in this regard. Too often, people mistakenly believe there have always been prisons. Prisons were first used as holding centres for people until their punishment had been decided. In the past, people were subjected to punishments such as being hung, drawn and quartered, after which their entrails were burned. Prisons were then proposed as a more enlightened approach to dealing with criminals. This approach coincided with the abolition of the death sentence in many countries. The purpose of prison was to provide a facility that would not only hold people and prevent them from endangering others but also rehabilitate and turn them into more effective members of society. We have moved away from this enlightened approach.

Major studies of the penal system have found that some of the people who would have been placed in large mental health institutions in the past are now being sent to prison because such institutions have closed. There is a direct correlation between how we deal with mental health issues and prison numbers.

On the issue of women in prison, the number of women in prison could be counted on one hand until the 1970s or 1980s. These women were primarily the small number of republican women in Limerick Prison. The reason women were not sent to prison was not because we were soft on women or opposed to equal rights but because women tend to commit completely different crimes from men. Women tend to be incarcerated for low level, non-violent crime that is linked to poverty and drug use. Shoplifting is one such example. Baroness Corston in the United Kingdom, who is not known as a radical, has produced a tremendous report which states categorically that the dislocation factor caused by the imprisonment of women who are the primary carers of children often results in their children having to move area, becoming homeless and becoming a drain on social services and their wider families. We must move away from this highly regressive approach. Unfortunately, the number of women in prison is higher than ever. This issue must be addressed because it does not benefit anyone.

People have also been sent to prison for immigration related issues. One woman who has been in the Dóchas Centre for approximately 18 months was trafficked into this country to be exploited as labour. This is lunacy.

We must step back and admit that everybody breaks the law. While not everyone will admit doing so and some people engage in more serious offences than others, everyone breaks the law at one time or another. People should not be demonised for their behaviour. Nowadays, teachers will not describe a child as bold or good but will describe his or her behaviour in those terms on the basis that people should be valued and we must work with them. Society in general needs to move in this direction. A large proportion of prisoners have been imprisoned for crimes related to drugs. We must review our approach to drugs because the ridiculous policy of criminalising drugs that are regularly used by large numbers of people results in many people who are not a danger to anyone being imprisoned. In this regard, the proposed legislation to criminalise the purchase of sex is also ridiculous as it could also lead to people who should not be in prison being sent to jail.

Deputy O'Dowd made a number of very good points on imprisoning people for non-payment of fines. Vested interests want to maintain the current approach to prison because it has become a significant money-making industry. People depend on the public prison service for their livelihoods. We need to take a step back and adopt a different approach. Restorative justice, which involves getting people to pay for their crimes or actions, not by locking them up but by confronting their behaviour, including through community service, is a much better approach.

I welcome the report. It is good it is being discussed in the House. More work has been done on this issue by this Dáil than was done over the past ten or 15 years. It is not enough, however, because we need to take a more radical approach. We should strive towards removing all prisons and replacing them with a few containment areas for the small number of people on whose behaviour we need to work because they pose a danger to themselves and others. Punishment never works and we should focus on rehabilitating people and working on their behaviour to ensure they can become full members of society. If we spent a fraction of what we spend on prisons on education and investment in the communities from which most prisoners come, everybody would be much better off.

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