Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank my two colleagues, Deputies Fitzmaurice and Fleming, for sharing time.

The Bill will give effect to a waste policy commitment in the programme for Government. Many proposals in the programme have not been effected and they will not be either before the Government leaves office but, as previous speakers said, the Government parties seem to be trying to stifle small business. I accept legislation and regulation is required but it should not stymie initiative. Entrepreneurs such as Bill Cullen, Sean Quinn and many others started off in their own field in their own area as young people trying to make a living. They used their initiative, their brain and their business acumen. Most young people have business acumen but everything is tied up with regulation.

I do not blame the Minister of State for all of it or for the implementation of successive directives from Europe. Deputy Fitzmaurice might not agree but when we transpose EU directives, we have an uncanny habit of adding nine or ten regulations to the diktats from Europe. This has happened in many sectors. I am a small businessman and I have witnessed the way regulation has been imposed. I would have been unable to start my business, which I founded in 1982, today. It is too costly and prohibitive to do so. There is too much red tape and regulation after regulation with an enforcement army implementing everything no matter what industry one goes into.

The National Employment Rights Authority, NERA, took a court case against a filling station in Durrow, County Laois for employing people under the prescribed legal age. The judge threw out the case saying it was much better for the young people to be working part time and gaining an understanding of commerce while earning a few euro in pocket money to help their hard pressed parents and learning the ethos of work rather than for them to be sitting at home in front of a computer or on a Wii. I am delighted he did this. I do not blame the NERA officials because they must implement the legislation passed in the House but much of it is purely regressive and downright stupid. I wonder whether the people who draft these regulations ever consult small business people or people living in various parts of the country before they make changes.

The Bills provides for the reinstatement of fixed payment notices for certain offences under solid fuel regulations and their extension to a range of other existing offences. It is all about having a cash cow and generating money to keep the system going but this is driving people out of business. It is anti-work, anti-business and, in many cases, it is anti-rural Ireland. Many business owners started up as ordinary fuel merchants who bought timber from farmers, chopped it up and sold it door to door. This is hard, dangerous work and I accept it has to be regulated and safety must be ensured at all times. However, the Government wants to ban this and ensure all fuel must be bought from oil companies. Deputy Fitmaurice is correct that the Government cannot touch the people who are laundering oil or those who are stretching petrol, which results in unfortunate families having their cars blown out of it, but it can get the little people all the time. They are easy prey and there is too much of that.

We are trying to recover from the downturn but the EPA, an organisation I admire, will not prosecute local authorities. I had occasion to pick up the telephone to EPA officials. I recall former Deputy, Luke 'Ming' Flanagan, who is now an MEP, outlining to the House how he tried to raise an issue in Castlerea with the agency. He was passed on to the county council with comments that Deputies Flanagan and McGrath were on their case. We were not on their case but we were seeking fair play.

Fairness should mean fairness for everyone. Why should they prosecute ordinary customers and small business people when they will not prosecute the county councils? They will not do that, as I have seen. They come a couple of times a year to my village. I met a landowner one day who has an outlet pipe from the local sewerage system belting into his land, approximately 200 m south of the bridge which is the main thoroughfare. They come and take the sample at the bridge. He asked them if they would go down 200 yd. and they would get a totally different sample, but they would not do that. They are selective, but when they come out to a farmer, they go where they like.

It is an unfair system and is becoming more unfair through the imposition of these kinds of ridiculous charges. This is wrong. We have fishing and game clubs that do a power of work for our environment and for the restocking of rivers and game, yet they too are being policed out of business. I do not know how far this will go. Take for example the issue of scrap and scrapyards. I tried, unsuccessfully, to bring in the Scrap and Precious Metal Dealers Bill and was promised by the former Minister, Deputy Shatter, that it would be introduced. I am aware the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government introduced some regulations, but they are toothless.

A man in Tipperary who owns three scrap yards, Mr. Michael Bailey, cannot move a battery from an end of life vehicle from one of his yards to another without a licence. He has come to me about this issue. One night, a couple of months ago, a gang arrived and fed and neutralised his Alsatian dogs then cut their way into his premises and took the batteries from every vehicle, chopping the cables and leads and doing untold damage. They then brought the batteries to a scrapyard in Limerick. There were no prosecutions of that gang for moving batteries without regulation. This type of activity is going on across the board. We have highwaymen outside of the law acting in this manner, yet we prosecute ordinary people. Mr. Bailey went to the gardaí in Tipperary town and fair play to them they traced the gang and recouped the batteries. Did the EPA prosecute them or the county council for moving batteries without a licence? They did not, which shows how farcical the situation is. Yet they prosecute the ordinary man.

A similar situation occurred in the case of another man, Seamus Clarke who has a tyre business in Tipperary. His stuff was stolen and found, but nobody was prosecuted. Similarly, in Tipperary recently we could not continue our coursing meet because all the hares had been killed by roving gangs, marauding gangs with all kinds of dogs, including lurchers and terriers. These gangs held their own races, outside of the law. We had a coursing meeting planned which we hoped would be a success, to be attended by thousands with everything regulated properly, but we could not have it because for the first time in 80 years there were no hares.

Groups of people operate outside the law. When we pass their houses in the evening, they have bonfires burning, but if you or I burn a few papers outside we are prosecuted. The law seems to be applied to ordinary, small people, but it ignores the gangs I have mentioned, whether money launderers, diesel launderers or others. It is about time we copped on and stopped persecuting ordinary people. We talk about the boom and the Government keeps citing figures suggesting we are in recovery. That is true for Dublin, as far as the Naas Road, but not outside of that.

The Bill includes fixed penalties of €2,000, or €5,000 if a case goes to court. This is a scandalous option to face any small entrepreneur. What about court costs if a case goes to court? What about people who cannot afford barristers or solicitors to represent them? They may lose their case, having tried to defend themselves, and end up with a pile of costs. The officials who prosecute them are unaware of the costs. They get paid, get their wages and put in their bill for expenses. What is going on is outrageous.

The Minister and his officials should be aware of the situation. If they are not, those who drafted the legislation should. If they are not, they should put on their working boots and overalls and go out and see these businesses in rural Ireland. They should meet the entrepreneurs who are trying to bring about recovery in this country and who are trying to pass on the initiative instilled in them to their children. They should not tie people up in knots so that nobody can do anything. Who is going to run businesses, pay taxes and rates and everything else if these people are being persecuted and driven out of business by regulation after regulation and directive after directive?

These regulations and directives are being inserted in this Bill by the Government, as happened with the previous Government, and will be added to the statutory instruments already in place. A person would want to be a solicitor to understand the legislation and small business owners would need to employ a solicitor to explain them. It is about time the system copped on. We cannot keep adding regulation after regulation or keep introducing nonsensical, impractical and unworkable laws that turn ordinary people into criminals. Regulation for the NCT, road safety and you name it has gone over the top - gone bonkers - and people end up facing the judicial system.

We were promised a judicial council Bill and I asked the Taoiseach about it today. This would allow people to make complaints if they do not get a hearing. Ordinary people are trying to run small businesses, to pay their tax, their VAT and their rates, but they have no place to go and have not been enabled to defend themselves. They cannot afford to pay for legal representatives and often end up in prison as a result. I know of a man in Tipperary who did. Batteries and everything else can be stolen from a yard and sold to another scrapyard without an invoice, yet a man can be prosecuted for moving one battery from one of his yards to another.

I am all for protection against pollution. The scrapyard owner I know must ensure there is not a drop of oil in the engines of the cars in his yard- not a thimbleful. At the same time, we see people have bonfires, spill diesel and oil and do enormous damage to the environment, but they are not prosecuted at all. Somehow or other, the system picks on the easy target, ordinary people in rural and urban Ireland who are trying to make a bob. If we are going to tie them up in knots with regulations like those in this Bill, nobody will run businesses or be self-employed. They will all want good jobs in the public or State service. Where will we end up then?

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