Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left) | Oireachtas source

Like many others, I would like to see the repeal of the eight amendment sooner rather than later because it has compounded some huge tragedies in the State that none of us wants to stand over or see happen again, given all of the cases we have seen in the past.

A point was made by a speaker that she understood Deputy Clare Daly’s frustration. This is not about Deputy Clare Daly’s frustration; it is about the frustration we have heard expressed by Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett and the families who have had to deal with this horrendous situation, which is not new. Doctors do not diagnose fatal foetal abnormalities to see whether pregnancies can be terminated in this country. It has been an ongoing issue for a long time. Doctors have been giving such prognoses every day of the week and the year for decades. What the Bill robustly attempts to do is to allow a situation where such families can lawfully terminate a pregnancy in this country within the confines of their own cultural life and in a situation where they are comfortable to do so.

Rather than saying the Bill is unconstitutional or that there is no electoral mandate to hold a referendum, if the Government believes the legislation is not sufficiently robust, how could the Minister with responsibility for people who find themselves in this position not introduce more robust legislation until such time as the eight amendment was repealed? The solicitors and legal experts who drew up the Bill are quite confident that, as Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett said, it only deals with a case in which a condition is incompatible with life. That is the crucial element of the legislation because it cannot be challenged by Article 40.3.3°. We do not believe any judge or court would find differently on the matter.

In the Attorney General v. X, in interpreting the term “practicable”, the court stated the duty to protect the life of the unborn meant the court should not make orders “which are futile, impractical or ineffective.” The Supreme Court interpreted the term to mean that which was practicable, rather than what was possible. Thus, just because it is possible for a woman to carry a foetus to term, although not to be born alive, does not mean that it is practicable to insist on she doing so. That is what the State is insisting on doing - either that or a woman must travel to Britain or somewhere else to terminate her pregnancy. A previous speaker spoke about how it had become more difficult to have a termination outside this jurisdiction, as there were pressures on the health service in England, for example, and many women found they had to wait longer to access a termination procedure.

It is not just morally imperative that we examine the issue for families affected by this issue, it is also a legal responsibility to consider all ways to assist. The very restrictive proposed legislation does not deal with a situation where a foetus could live outside the womb for three or four minutes or one day or one week; it specifically relates to a fatal foetal abnormality, a diagnosis that it could not live outside the womb. That is the intention of the Bill and the solicitors are confident that the Bill is robust from that point of view.

I urge Deputies to pass the legislation. If passed, although I would not like to see this happen, if the President wanted to do so, he could refer it to the Supreme Court to test its constitutionality. If the Bill were to be passed, the women and families affected would at least have some comfort in knowing that they could deal with the issue in their own state, rather than having to travel abroad. I appeal to all Members to seriously consider the Bill and read the information provided and the legal explanations from the solicitors and barristers who have drawn it up and debate it with people who find themselves in the situation and would like to gain relief for families affected.

We received a telephone call in the constituency office the other day from the father of a woman who had received a diagnosis of a fatal foetal abnormality only five weeks ago. She had to travel to Britain. He said it was horrific for a family to face and that they never wanted to see it happen to anyone. Hundreds of people have been affected, not just the mother who is grieving but also the father, the grandparents and children – all those who have to deal with the issue. It is within our remit as legislators to pass the Bill to deal with it.

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