Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I will put a number of questions to the Minister of State. One relates to the Government's tendency to wait for other countries to negotiate on debt issues. For example, the substantial reduction in interest rates was essentially the work of the then Greek Government, which sought and secured four times what our Government requested.

Regarding retrospective recapitalisation, the Ministers, Deputies Noonan and Howlin, referred to approximately €30 billion in debt relief two or so years ago. Now, they are looking for nothing. The formal position is that the Government is not seeking a retrospective deal. People discuss the potential sale of AIB, but that was never envisaged in the former Tánaiste, Deputy Gilmore's talk of a seismic change - the breaking of the link between sovereign and banking debt - after the June 2012 summit. The Government stated that the pathway had been created and the door had been opened for substantial retrospective recapitalisation of debt.

It is a fact that Europe, particularly the ECB, was adamant that no bank would fail after the failure of Lehman Brothers in the US. In guaranteeing Northern Rock, the UK gave an implicit guarantee of the wider British banking system. There were similar guarantees across Europe, including in Germany. The orthodoxy was that no bank could fail and no bondholders should contribute. Consequently, Ireland was treated unfairly. As such, there is a case. There will be renegotiations of the Greek situation, although it involves a different debt structure and the circumstances are somewhat different. None the less, debt as a percentage of GDP in Greece is 175%, which is unsustainable. Therefore, something must happen, just as something happened previously. For example, any profit made from the ECB's holding of Greek bonds will revert to the Greek Government.

There is an opportunity for a broader, pan-European discussion about debt sustainability. I am curious about why the Government has quietly dropped any real push for retrospective recapitalisation of the banks. It would essentially be debt relief. Ireland should get something back for the decisions it took at the behest of the ECB and under the policy framework. Long after the bank guarantee, the debts of unsecured and unguaranteed bondholders were honoured. Even in recent times, billions of euro were paid to such bondholders because that was the prevailing orthodoxy at ECB level.

Separate to the issue of AIB, what is the Government's position on seeking relief on banking debt and would it support a European debt conference in the near future? The negotiations that will undoubtedly start with the Greek Government will provide an opportunity for the Irish Government to become proactive in its own negotiations.

Regarding the Ukrainian situation, I was taken aback by the commentary in the House just now to the effect that everything was essentially the fault of Europe, the West and the Ukrainian Government. Has anyone thought about the citizens of Ukraine? They voted in a general election. Have Members any empathy with the citizens of states formerly controlled by Russia? Be they Polish, Czech or so on, they do not want to return to that regime. It is not a question of NATO or geopolitics. While those have always been in the backdrop, the fundamental issue is the sense of liberty that people in these states have enjoyed for the first time in a long time.

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