Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour) | Oireachtas source

We had this discussion on Committee Stage. I will put it in some context. When framing the Bill, we looked at best international practice. A number of options were available to actually define what lobbying is. Different jurisdictions have tried different definitions. Most of us would ask "What is lobbying?" In plain English, it is attempting to influence decision-making. That is the concept that has been used elsewhere in legislation, particularly in the ground-breaking model legislation in Canada. However, that was actually proved to be too narrow a definition because, in practice, proving that a person is trying, or attempting, to influence became an obstacle, so I rejected that. I have cast the definition much more broadly than the initial Canadian model. For the Deputy's information, Canada has amended its federal legislation to change the definition from attempting to influence to any oral or written communication, which is the model we are using here. However, if one is going to use that catch-all phrase of "any written or oral communication", it is so broad a definition as one's starting base that one has to look at ensuring that one captures what is really at issue here. The definition used in our Bill is the broad definition. We need to be explicit in terms of the exemptions we put in.

I understand exactly what the Deputy is talking about but, basically, what we want to do, certainly at this stage of it, is to capture anything that seeks to influence the creation or making of policy during its formation. That is our focus in regard to this.

This provision seeks to find the appropriate balance to ensure that significant communication affecting the formulation of policy is captured and is disclosable so that people understand who is influencing the decision-making at the policy formation phase. This provision seeks to exclude low-level communication relating to implementation or technical issues around implementation, which, I am informed, would be absolutely voluminous. It is a standard approach in other lobbying legislation and according to best practice. Again, it ensures that the base principles of the Bill are broad enough to ensure that people do not run a coach and four through them. That is why I have used the broad definition rather than the narrow one and confined it in a reasonable way and made it practicable - so that we do not lose sight of what we need to focus on due to the sheer volume.

As I said, we have probably done more sounding out with stakeholders, lobbying groups, citizen groupings, etc., on this legislation than on any other legislation I have dealt with. It was indicated during this process that the administrative burden that would be placed on registrants, arising from everything that is done in the implementation phase, would be extraordinary. I accepted that.

I do not say that this is an issue that is closed forever. We may want to broaden it out in the future, but certainly, in order to bring everybody with us and to deal with what this Bill is about, we must focus on who is influencing or seeking to influence, often quite legitimately, properly and appropriately in a democratic system, the formulation of any policy rather than simply every communication about the technical nature of implementation once the policy has been determined. I hope the Deputy will accept my bona fides on that.

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