Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I hope the matter in question will form part of that review.

I will now deal with the other 18 amendments in the group. The Minister provided a list of the people who, in the context of lobbying, will be contemplated under the legislation. These include Ministers of the Government and Ministers of State, Deputies and Senators, MEPs, members and CEOs of local authorities, special advisers and Secretaries General of Departments. Directors of services of local authorities will also come under the legislation, by order, in due course. The Minister said he might, after the review, include officials of non-public service entities - such as commercial semi-state bodies - under the terms of the legislation.

I ask that they be included at this early stage rather than waiting for an annual review 12 months after the legislation has been put into operation. The standard practice for establishing an organisation has not been to put the full system in place on day one but to put it partly into place to see how it goes. It will be like the freedom of information legislation; it will probably take ten years before all the bodies that should be included in this legislation are eventually added. There is no good reason some of them could not be included on day one.

Those who lobby Waterways Ireland should be included. The organisation is significant in terms of the work it does throughout the country.

Importantly, “people who lobby a consultant employed to carry out work for or on behalf of a public body or Government Department” should be included. This is a very important issue. The Minister for Finance is approving Goldman Sachs as the body to put a valuation on the Government's stake in AIB, which is 99% in State ownership. If one lobbies the Minister on that issue, one must be included under the legislation, but if one lobbies Goldman Sachs, which is where the action will be, and if Goldman Sachs is the body to which one wants to express one's views, one does not have to be included under it. Anybody who wants to get his view reflected in the ultimate report will lobby Goldman Sachs if he has a brain in his head at all. Goldman Sachs is not necessarily based in the country. Even if it were wholly based in the country, one would be outside the legislation if one lobbied it in its capacity as a consultant employed to carry out work on behalf of a public body or Department, in this case the Minister for Finance.

I have mentioned previously the consultants involved in respect of the licence for the national lottery. If anybody wanted to have an input, it would have been far more intelligent to lobby the consultants preparing the report for the Minister than to lobby the Minister directly. One can lobby the people who do the work, put the document together and compile the consultant's report for the Minister or Cabinet without being captured by the legislation. That is a tremendous omission. I am just citing an example that has arisen in the past 48 hours.

I also wish to include the lobbying of bodies whose funding is "made up of in excess of 50 per cent of voted expenditure". Many organisations, particularly in the health sector, including organisations operating under section 38 and section 39 agreements, fall into this category. In this Dáil, we have seen that some of the large charitable organisations that are operating under section 38 agreements often get 80% to 90% of their total funding from State bodies. Yet they are not being captured in this legislation.

We got a briefing note at a meeting of the finance committee subsequent to Committee Stage in which the Minister said he might include some bodies at the end of the annual review. I believe they should be included now. The legislation would be better if this were the case, but I will wait to hear what the Minister says.

Irish Rail should be captured for the principal reason that it is a State monopoly. There is no commercial or other reason, including in respect of financial sensitivity, it should be excluded. In all our discussions on various topics so far, the Minister has accepted that State monopolies are different from State companies in competition with companies in the private sector. Irish Rail is the only railway company operating and it has a monopoly.

The HSE has a budget of approximately €11 billion or €12 billion. While I am not sure, and I will not get into the question of how big the budget is before or after Supplementary Estimates, I believe it is of that nature. To exclude the HSE is a major omission.

Voted expenditure through the Oireachtas each year is in the order of €40 billion. Approximately €10 billion goes through the Central Fund. There are payments to the European Union, payments for politicians and judges, payments for election expenses and referendums, and the cost of financing the State debt, which is the biggest item covered in the legislation. We have spoken about that issue before. However, the funding for the HSE is well in excess of the funding in this regard. One can lobby the HSE on a multitude of matters but not be captured by this legislation. This represents a significant gap. The Minister gets the point I am making.

We have discussed Irish Water, a new commercial entity, several times. It is a State monopoly, which is why I have singled it out here. People who lobby it for various purposes to obtain contracts or financial benefits for an organisation or client should be required to register under this legislation. It was announced in the Government's Order Paper issued today that further legislation on Irish Water is coming up to deal with the non-payment of rates to local authorities and the distinguishing of assets and liabilities. Considerable lobbying might occur behind the scenes in this regard with Irish Water, but it would be excluded from the legislation.

Lobbying of the education and training boards should also be considered. These are very big organisations now. There is significant scope for lobbying them and they should be included.

I also include An Post, which is essentially a monopoly in the area of mail distribution. On the parcel side of the business, there is quite a lot of competition, but on the mail side, by and large, An Post has a monopoly in terms of its having the sorting offices and the ability to deliver. That could change but, as of now, An Post has a monopoly on the delivery of mail for domestic purposes.

Another organisation that many people around the country believe should be included is EirGrid. Again, it is another State monopoly. It looks after the electricity transmission system throughout the country, which is a matter of great public interest. Some 38,000 people made submissions on the Grid Link project from Cork through east Munster and up through Leinster towards the Dublin region. I understand the people who made a submission to EirGrid could have all their details accessed under freedom of information legislation. That is fine and welcome, and the process is open and transparent. In other words, when John Citizen or Joan Citizen wants to make a submission to EirGrid, the submission is subject to freedom of information legislation, but companies will be able to lobby EirGrid by way of another process of their choice and in an informal manner on why something should go here or there, or on whether a project should involve wind energy, renewable energy or otherwise, without being captured by the legislation. EirGrid employs many consultants to carry out work for it. So too does the National Roads Authority. One can lobby the consultants to have one's point of view expressed to EirGrid and not be included under the legislation.

The same applies to the Commission for Energy Regulation. It has a role in this area and people should know who is lobbying it. The National Transport Authority should be included. I made a point on the National Roads Authority. Again, it is a State monopoly. The Private Security Authority should also be included. These are organisations set up by the State to regulate various industries. There are people in the industries with vested interests. It is important that those with vested interests who are lobbying the regulatory and registration authorities be subject to a mechanism ensuring public transparency.

Tourism Ireland should be included, as reflected in amendment No. 15.The examples are clear-cut. Large hotel groups might want to lobby Tourism Ireland for particular benefits for their section of the industry, as might representatives of certain regions or people with particular ideas. If they are lobbying Tourism Ireland, which is essentially operating with funds voted from this House, there should be a requirement to register.

Amendment No. 17 is in the name of Deputy Mary Lou McDonald, who has yet to speak. I will speak now on amendment No. 18, in the name of the Minister, because I will not get a second chance.

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