Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

In welcoming this debate, I will begin by thanking Deputy Clare Daly for putting this Private Members’ Bill before the House. It proposes to remove the eighth amendment to the Constitution and will create a new provision in it. If it is the will of the people, deleting Article 43.3.3° will remove the right to life of the mother whose life is threatened by her pregnancy and, equally, of the unborn child.

I believe this Private Members’ Bill is necessary.

It is important that we focus on the right to life of the mother and of the unborn child and it is equally important that we focus on the issue of abortion. The modern history of Ireland shows a polarised debate on this issue in the 1980s, 1990s and in the lifetime of this Dáil and I regret this fact. It would have been easy for many in this House to opt out of this debate and avoid speaking here but we must learn from the errors of the past in handling this sensitive and complex matter. We must bring clarity and certainty to everyone, especially mothers and medics.

Life is not black and white, this is not a simple matter and diverging views exist on the issue within all parties. Deputy McDonald referred to differing views in her party and the same applies in Fine Gael but we must try to have a tolerant and mature debate that reflects a society that also has differing viewpoints, particularly compared to the viewpoint that prevailed previously. Last night the Minister criticised the binary argument that arises on this complex issue. I am Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health and Children, Deputy Catherine Byrne is a member of the committee and I believe the debates in that committee, and the debate in this House over the past two nights, have shown tolerant and mature debate is possible.

The Minister was correct in saying last night that no law can eliminate all human tragedy from pregnancy. The people of Ireland have voted two or three times on this issue in my memory and I regret that in the 1980s politics played a role in the framing of the amendment that is now in our Constitution. Many learned scholars and citizens feel the amendment is flawed and has gone too far while some of those on the other side of the argument feel it did not go far enough and want it to be applied more restrictively.

I should point out that I spent five years in the seminary studying for the priesthood and this has shaped my viewpoint in some ways. I classify myself as a pro-life person but I recognise that pregnancy is about the mother and the unborn child. I was born 13 weeks prematurely in 1967 and weighed 2 lbs. The pregnancy could have gone horribly wrong, resulting in the loss of my life and my mother's life. Life is precious but the life of a mother is precious and important. Some people see women as vessels but this is a sad viewpoint and I believe we should see women as citizens and people. I appeal to those on one side of the argument to be moderate and respectful in their language and not to buy into a viewpoint based on an old-fashioned concept. The issues of fatal foetal abnormalities, rape and incest affect the lives of women and will not go away so we must face up to this at some stage.

In contributing to the debate on the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act I outlined my reasons for supporting the legislation. Having chaired hearings for six days I recognised that the Act was about codifying and clarifying the existing constitutional position. Everyone in this Chamber appreciates the value of human life and knows it must be protected but we must try to get the balance right. This Government acted courageously on the X case but some Members felt this did not go far enough. We campaigned on the basis that we would establish a committee with access to medical and legal expertise to consider the implications of the A, B and C v Ireland ruling and to make recommendations. When the Government took office it did just this as the programme for Government said it would draw on the appropriate medical and legal expertise to make a recommendation.

In the committee hearings Mr. Frank Callanan S.C. described the Bill as "conceptually conservative" and went on to say it proposed to "translate into legislation and give legislative effect to the decision of the Supreme Court in the X case without either widening the category in the X case of adding to the categories in the X case". The Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act is the result of the Government fulfilling its political promise and mandate on this most sensitive of issues. However, 18 months later, here we are discussing the issue again. This summer the story of Ms Y emerged but this Parliament still does not know how the Act operates in practice. I believe we must give the legislation time as it provides for a report to be presented to the Minister and laid before the Oireachtas - this provision exists to ensure the Act functions as intended. Before we make further decisions we should wait for that report to be presented to the Houses.

Unlike Deputy Eoghan Murphy, I believe that the political reality is that this Government has gone as far as it can on this issue as it has no mandate to go further. A referendum is required to change the Constitution and I believe the Irish people will make a decision on this issue within the lifetime of the next Parliament. We cannot ignore the fact that 5,000 women, citizens of the country, travel abroad every year to terminate pregnancies. We cannot airbrush this fact and forget about it. I commend Deputy Daly on putting this Bill before the House but I cannot support it as I do not believe we have the political mandate to support such a change. Also, I believe the proposal before us is flawed and we must not repeat the mistakes of the past by introducing a vague and uncertain amendment through this Bill. We should beware of the law of unintended consequences but the Bill before us fails to do so as I believe it would walk us straight down the path to abortion on demand, a measure I cannot support.

If, after the next election, there is a political mandate to make further changes to Article 40.3.3° of the Constitution it should follow the model of the Constitutional Convention. I agree with Deputy McDonald's point, and I made the point on the radio this morning, that we should have a Constitutional Convention and a conversation of citizens to decide how best to act regarding our Constitution. It is not a question of bringing together the extremes in the debate but, rather, it is a matter of bringing together a group that reflects the broad spectrum of Irish society. We need the kind of group best able to consider this issue and the equal rights to life of the unborn child and the mother devoid of rancour, partisanship and adversarial viewpoints. This group could make a proposal for this House to consider before, in turn, putting it to the people in a referendum.

I honestly think the Irish people are ahead of the Members of this House in their views and reflect modern society better than we do. I thank Deputy Daly for putting this Bill before the House. I think we should first allow the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act to take shape; the House should consider a report on this before we make decisions. I hope the debates we have on this issue now and in future, in this House and in Irish society, will be mature, respectful and tolerant. We must not experience again the rancour of the past.

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