Dáil debates

Wednesday, 17 December 2014

Water Services Bill 2014: Report and Final Stages

 

6:20 pm

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent) | Oireachtas source

The reason we are here with this amended legislation is because of the events of 11 October 2014 when 100,000 people took to the streets. In making these changes, the issues were identified. One of those issues was the fact that people had very real concerns about the prospect of Irish Water or water services being privatised. I wish we were not here talking about this tonight. I think the real problem is Irish Water and that there is no confidence and trust in Irish Water. Why should there be when one looks at the litany of issues that have happened from this day last year when the legislation was rammed through?

I think we know the difference between a referendum and a plebiscite. A plebiscite is a vote of the electorate to accept or reject a proposal whereas if one puts something in the Constitution, one cannot enact legislation that is repugnant to it so it must be consistent. The Attorney General would not stamp the legislation. It would not get on to the floor of the House and we know that. There is a big difference between a plebiscite and a referendum. A referendum, if passed, is a guarantee that legislation cannot be brought in that is inconsistent with the Constitution. Essentially, this is giving the impression that there is a certainty about non-privatisation. It does not give anything like the same sense of certainty that a referendum would give.

If we had a crystal ball ten years ago, would any of us have predicted what happened in the years that have intervened in terms of the economic crash and the kind of pressure that was put on to look at the assets that might be sold to get us out of the difficulties in which we found ourselves? I do not have a crystal ball and I do not think anyone else here has one. Who is to say that this will not happen again? This is why one needs to have certainty about the assets of the State and this is why we need a referendum as opposed to a plebiscite because it gives that certainty.

There was a lot of talk about the ESB, more or less saying that there is a similarity between the ESB and Irish Water. The ESB did not start off with €11 billion worth of assets and very few financial liabilities. It did not start off being packaged in a way that made it an attractive proposition to privatise. Why would people not have concerns about that? I must question where Irish Water is going to get all this money to invest in the infrastructure when it is very clear that the net amount that will be available will be very small.

I very much regret that a particular issue was raised in this debate, which is the issue of trying to divide urban from rural. We have all paid regardless of whether one is on a group water scheme or a mains system. People have mainly paid through development contributions and in recent years, some of those would have been up to €15,000, €16,000, €17,000 or €18,000 per house. If one quantifies that as a mortgage over the lifetime of a mortgage, people would be paying €30,000 or €40,000 in development contributions. We have all paid so let us try not to divide and conquer on this particular issue and say that rural people have always paid and urban people have not. We have all paid for the development of a system that accrued something in the region of €11 billion worth of assets.

People are not stupid. They know the difference between a plebiscite and a referendum. They know when something is a fig leaf and that is exactly what this is. None of us knows who will be in government in five or ten years time.

We are writing legislation that is supposed to stand the test of time but when we can identify a flaw in it and if we believe water services should remain in public ownership, it is incumbent on us to act. Given that Labour Party Members say they want to keep Irish Water in public ownership, I would have expected them to be first out of the traps in demanding a referendum rather than a plebiscite. However, if they did not proceed with Irish Water we would not need to discuss this issue. That is the fundamental flaw.

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