Dáil debates

Thursday, 11 December 2014

Water Services Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed)

 

3:15 pm

Photo of John HalliganJohn Halligan (Waterford, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am reminded of what happened when an attempt was made to introduce water rates some years ago. I would describe those who were involved at the time in forcibly cutting off water supplies, threatening and abusing people and passing sexual remarks against women as thugs. I would not withdraw that remark.

We are in the dying hours of this debate. The section of the Bill we are discussing will impose water charges on the people of this country. It is worth reminding people of exactly what we are doing and who we are doing it to. I will do so by referring to the three issues that have concerned and aggravated people here. I remind Fine Gael and the Labour Party - I do not have to remind the Opposition - that people believe they have already paid for water from PRSI, VAT and all sorts of indirect taxation. People do not believe in the stability of the supposedly reasonable or affordable charges that are being proposed by the Government. The charges will not stick. People know in their hearts and souls that this is the beginning of increased and sustained charges. All of the indicators are there. Water charges in Scotland and England increased by 68% over a period of eight years. If people check it out, they will see that words like "reasonable" and "affordable" were part of the terminology used in the British Parliament when water charges were first introduced there. Nobody believes the unfair charges being introduced in this country will be reasonable or affordable two, three or four years from now.

Deputy Boyd Barrett mentioned the word "mandate". We all have a mandate from the people who voted for us. The Government has a mandate. The Opposition has a mandate. Every individual Deputy has a mandate from those who voted for us and tell us what they think. There is absolutely no doubt that the vast majority of people are opposed to water charges. The Minister should not get hung up on the fact that people are paying or registering, because that does not necessarily mean they agree with these charges. The Minister is completely out of touch if he thinks the 4 million people in this country who were not among the 45,000, 70,000 or 150,000 people marching yesterday or a few weeks ago agree with these charges. That is not the case. It is interesting to note that many of the people I meet on these demonstrations are not followers of Deputy Boyd Barrett, Deputy Halligan or Deputy Catherine Murphy. Very many of them vote for Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and the Labour Party. They just do not agree with the water charges. Why does the Minister not get this? He seems to think there is a divide involving people on the left wing who are opposed to water charges and are gathering together to manipulate people in Waterford, Cork and Dublin, etc. If he goes into Facebook, or if he talks to his own people, he will understand that is not the case at all. I met a family in Waterford that has consistently voted for Fine Gael and will probably vote for it again. Three members of that family were out demonstrating against what they consider to be an unfair and unjust charge.

It comes back to the word "mandate". Where is the Government's mandate? It does not have one from the vast majority of people who believe they are paying too much. Furthermore, it should bear in mind that the Society of St. Vincent de Paul has suggested that a vast number of people in this country - 700,000 adults and 200,000 children - are on the poverty line. Hundreds of thousands of more people are on very low incomes and cannot afford a penny more. As I said when I was interviewed by RTE radio yesterday, the Government needs to stop telling people that this costs just €3, €5 or €6 a week. It started at this with the universal social charge and the household tax, and now it is at it with the water charge. It is not acceptable to say to someone on the minimum wage, jobseeker's benefit or a JobBridge scheme who is barely putting food on the table each Thursday and barely keeping a roof over his or her head that it is only €5. The Government does not have a mandate to say that to people.

At this late stage, I would say the Minister is not going to change his mind. Regardless of whether he believes there were 30,000, 40,000 or 70,000 people at yesterday's protest, which took place on a Wednesday - a working day - he must acknowledge that a substantial number of people, representative of almost every city and country in Ireland, came to Dublin to make it clear that they will not pay these water charges. I will give an example of why those who were at yesterday's event represent many more people. We met many people yesterday whose wives, husbands and children were unable to come to the protest. If all of them had been present, there would have been 300,000 people marching in Dublin. If the many people who could not get off work, who were ill or who could not make their way to Dublin because they could not meet the expense had been in attendance, we would not be debating figures like 35,000, 45,000 or 70,000.

The problem is that the Government does not have a mandate to do this. Before they came to power, the members of the Government said on every radio and television programme that they would listen to the people and to what they want. Is the Minister seriously telling me through all of this that the people agree with this charge? Does he believe that? Is he using as his reasoning for that belief the fact that people are paying? People had to pay for outrageous mortgages on their houses because costs were shot up by banks and developers. They had to pay to keep the house. They had to pay the rent. Did they agree with that? No, they did not. People have had the universal social charge forcibly taken out of their wages. Did they agree with that? No, but they had to do it. I ask the Minister to think about that equation. People have to pay excessive costs to rent or buy houses. Do they agree with that? No, they do not. If the Minister really believes he has even one third of the population behind him, he is out of touch because he does not.

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