David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I wish to make some points in respect of this important legislation. One of the cornerstones of our democracy and our Republic is the rule of law. Laws are debated, discussed, agreed and passed in this Chamber and in the Seanad before being signed into law finally by the President. Our democracy depends on the rule of law and our freedoms as citizens depend on the rule of law, among other things. However, the rule of law is crucial. Each Member elected to this Chamber should respect the rule of the law and should respect the law as passed. He or she may not agree with them but should obey them and should respect them. If a Member does not agree with them, he or she should try to change them by bringing forward Bills, by tabling amendments or through discussion and debate. Any other methods that are used to change laws, such as have been seen recently like street politics, intimidation or bullying threaten to subvert our democracy and our freedoms and must be taken very seriously.

As a Legislature, the Oireachtas gives the Garda enormous powers and with those powers come enormous responsibilities. There must always be checks and balances when powers are given out. There must be checks and balances and oversight is crucial. Such oversight must be trusted, must be clear and must be strong. Mention has been made of culture in the debate about the Garda Síochána and of cultures that have built up over decades including cultures of secrecy and of circling the wagons. I believe the study of sociology will tell one that most bureaucracies will circle the wagons when threatened. I believe Comte was the sociologist who initially came up with the concept that bureaucracies will defend themselves, that is, the system will defend itself. This is why bodies such as GSOC, the Garda Inspectorate, the proposed Garda authority, Oireachtas committees and so on are needed. It is to ensure there is correct oversights of the powers possessed by the Garda Síochána.

I will refer to an issue I have in the context of a visit by a delegation from the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality to Northern Ireland and Scotland. I would bet that until recently, many citizens in the State did not know what the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC, was. However, in Scotland and Northern Ireland, members of the committee found there was one person as ombudsman and that person was identified with the office. Members got the sense from being in those jurisdictions that people in Scotland and Northern Ireland knew what the ombudsman was, but that citizens here did not.

I urge the Minister to reconsider the position and designate one person to act as ombudsman for the Garda. We have had some great ombudsmen in the past. The former Ombudsman for Children, Ms Emily Logan, was recently appointed as Chief Commissioner of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission. Ms Logan brought personality, strength and identity to and took ownership of the Office of the Ombudsman for Children. I contend that a similar approach is required in respect of the position of ombudsman for the Garda. In that context, there is a need to appoint a strong, independent person who would actually bring identity to the office as required. Provision in this regard is not made in the Bill but I am of the view that it should be. I intend no reflection on the current Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. However, a commission is not an ombudsman, as such, rather it is a committee. It is crucial that what I have outlined should be done.

Deputy Farrell referred to the need for ongoing training of members of the Garda Síochána. Like the Deputy, I am of the view that this is an extremely important matter.

I welcome the fact that all members of the force, including the Garda Commissioner, are accountable to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. If it were the case that a holder of the office of Garda Commissioner were to be investigated by the commission - in whatever form it takes in the future - as Deputy Wallace noted, such an event would be both rare and serious. Depending on the nature of the matter involved - probably a criminal charge of some sort - I am of the opinion that the Garda Commissioner would have to be obliged to step aside during any investigation. Provision in this regard should be included in the legislation.

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