Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We are trying to be constructive tonight. When one tries to be constructive around here, one gets into trouble. The Ministers of State were trying to be helpful to me. We would not like to make a mistake. I think by the nodding heads, my sums are right.

These 500,000 houses will yield damn all to the Exchequer. However, to get this null or minor sum will require a huge amount of administrative work. Úisce Éireann will have to issue all these people with a bill and chase up the defaulters while the Department of Social Protection will have to process all of these applications and confirm the identities of the householders. There will be many checks involved including of people who move from rented accommodation. The mind boggles. Between 5% and 10% of the money-in and the money-out to net this zero figure will be taken up in administration. For the 1.3 million dwellings which are connected to sewerage schemes, the charge will be between €60 and €160. There will be a net gain of €100, but if we take the €300 figure, it will cost Úisce Éireann a massive €30 million to chase down people and collect the money. It could cost a further €13 million for the Department of Social Protection to process all the changes of tenants among its clients in order to pay out the money. That is €43 million in administration fees.

Given the 500,000 houses from which virtually no revenue will be derived, there could be a bill of €50 million to €70 million. Moving the money from here to there and back again, one winds up with €100 million in one's pocket. I thought it was slimline-government time with the elimination of unnecessary bureaucracies, but we are now setting up a new one. The position will not be the same as with free electricity where pensioners mainly stay put. In this case, one is talking about the entire population who reside in dwellings. They will be coming and going all the time and there will be a whole section in the Department and Úisce Éireann that will be checking addresses every day.

I turn to the next obvious question to which no one seems to have the answer. I would love to see the revised business plan for Úisce Éireann. The Government keeps saying it will borrow off-balance sheet. Can someone explain how a company with a turnover as small as that of this one can borrow? How much would any rational borrower lend it? Will there be loans of €3 billion, €5 billion or €10 billion? The Government says it will invest €600 million a year. We were doing €500 million a year when we were in government. The Government says it will increase that by €100 million to solve the problem. What I would like to see is the business case setting out how much of that €600 billion the company will be able to borrow. No doubt, those who will lend the money will look at repayment capacity. Therefore, it is not like the ESB that borrowed €7 billion. It could do that because it is paid in full by every customer. It has a long-standing record of professionalism in its business. The Government must tell the House if the maximum amount of borrowing it can realistically do is in the region of €2 billion or €3 billion as it will not be open-ended.

The other problem about all of this and the assertion that there is a great gain in borrowing off the balance sheet is that even if the Government was given €1 billion tomorrow, it could not spend it. Between planning and arguments about the siting of waste water plants, which are much more expensive than water, the Government would find it could not spend the money quickly. One of the biggest logjams in getting things done in the past has not been money but rather the ability to get through the processes we have, rightly, put in place. Considerations include archaeology and local objections. Deputy Ring will be very familiar with things like this all over the place over a long career. Everyone wants the system. I remember one of the best speeches one of Deputy Ring's colleagues ever made. Councillor Gerry Coyle noted that everyone wants the mobile phone but nobody wants the mast, that everyone wants to be able to dispose of rubbish but nobody wants the dump and that everybody wants the sewerage system, but they do not want the processing plant near their houses.

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