Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent) | Oireachtas source

-----and deal with the issue. Cigarettes are being sold illegally throughout this State, costing the Exchequer hundreds of millions of euro. Violent criminal gangs now find it easier to deal in the illegal cigarette trade rather than in cocaine and heroin. That is a reality. The Minister can check that with Customs and Excise officials and the Garda.

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That is another issue the Minister should deal with in respect of this debate.

It is a bit rich when people try to give up cigarettes. I speak as a smoker. We try every day. It is an addiction. Bullying or banning us or taking electronic cigarettes out of the system will not work. They were introduced to try to help people give up cigarettes but the Minister started to ban them and now wants to ban them from more public spaces. In some places one cannot even have a smoke in a public park. The Minister needs to learn the lessons of life if he wants people to deal with the health issue. I agree with the sentiments in the legislation because I respect the rights of children and of non-smokers. The Minister needs to find other ways to deal with the issue. Has the Government made a dent in the smoking population over the past ten years? The figures speak for themselves.

I agree with Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan about the drugs crisis. There is a major problem with drugs in this city, the violent crime connected with them, families destroyed by them and gangs intimidating families and whole streets. I would like to see a sensible Government focusing on these issues, not just picking on the easy target, the gentle man or woman who wants to have a quiet smoke and mind his or her business.

This Bill was initiated by Senators Crown, Daly and van Turnhout. Government amendments were accepted on Report Stage. The Bill prohibits smoking in cars where children, those under 18 years of age, are present. It is to protect children from second-hand smoke in cars. I support that. It is sensible. Most of us smokers would do that out of respect for another person or child. There is a small minority who would act arrogantly.

The legislation is to be enforced by An Garda Síochána and the necessary powers required are set out in the Bill. Will gardaí be stopping people at traffic lights or chasing them around for having a smoke in their cars? This is a waste of resources. There are violent criminals and people dealing in dangerous drugs who should be locked up but are on our streets and the Government is going to target smokers. Once again, the Government is focusing on soft targets, silly legislation, silly debates and silly solutions. If a person commits an offence under this Act, he or she shall be served with a fixed-charge notice. The amount of the charge is set out in the regulation. The Bill also includes a presumption of age provision for members of An Garda Síochána, that is, if a garda is of the view that the occupant is under 18 years, this shall be presumed to be a fact unless the contrary is shown. It includes the legal principle of holding the driver liable for smoking occurring in his or her car in the presence of a child, regardless of whether he or she is a smoker.

I have no problem respecting people’s right not to smoke, to be influenced, or have their health affected by smoking. The defences in the Bill are if the driver reasonably believes everyone in the car is 18 years, if the driver is not the person smoking but could not prevent a passenger smoking in order to drive safely, and if the driver, if not the person smoking, made all reasonable efforts to prevent a passenger from smoking.

There are many problems in this country. Do we want gardaí chasing people who are having a quiet cigarette in their car? Do we want them to waste resources when there are other problems they could be dealing with? I am dealing with many serious issues this week in my constituency involving violent criminals and families who are being intimidated. Many of these gangs are up to their necks in drugs. I would like to see the resources of the State targeted on them.

There are other ways to deal with the public health issue. These solutions have been put forward in the debate on smoking. We need to treat this as an addiction problem not by banning smokers or shoving us out in the cold or telling us to stay out in the rain. What really galls me is people in pubs who are well over the alcohol limit lecturing others about having cigarettes. Do they ever look at their own livers or alcohol-related health issues? This is the kind of phoney intellectual arrogance that some people go on with and that we need to challenge. The nanny state brigade must be challenged and told this is an addiction issue. Let us deal with it sensibly as a health problem. Banning electronic cigarettes is appalling. We should help people to get off cigarettes if that is their choice. The legislation labels smokers as irresponsible. Smokers are taxpayers. They respect their own children, their neighbours’ and friends’ children and children generally.

I accept that my view would not be popular but I never set out to be populist on this issue. I give a minority view and any democratic society that does not listen to minority views is going nowhere. The Minister should consider other options for dealing with smoking as a health issue. He should be brave and radical and stop ganging up and beating up on people who are addicted to cigarettes. Many would give their right arm to give up cigarettes and they try to do so every day. Banning them, throwing them out in the rain or stopping them having an electronic cigarette to try to detox is not an acceptable solution. That is not good or sensible health care.

We must focus on bigger, more important issues, such as alcohol and drug abuse and violent crime. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality is dealing with gangland crime, drugs and intimidation in communities. We did a great deal of work on this in the summer and will have hearings soon. Some of the people coming to the hearings will tell us about the illegal trade in cigarettes. There is a new subculture among those who were making money from heroin and cocaine and who find it easier to make money from illegal cigarettes. The Exchequer is losing between €500 million and €600 million just when we need the money to invest in other areas.

I support the legislation, despite my views on smokers and the way they are treated, if there is a minority of smokers who do not respect the rights of non-smokers. The Minister should get his Department and the Department of Health to work together to come up with sensible solutions. People will always do things that are outside the box. It may not be healthy or fashionable but that is part of life. If the Minister enjoyed diversity and had a little more tolerance, we would have a healthier society.

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