David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome this legislation. Any initiative we can bring forward to reduce the use of tobacco and the smoking of cigarettes is to be welcomed; there is no doubt about that. This is a big, powerful and very profitable industry. It is also an industry that has, as some colleagues have already noted, a considerable and growing area of illegality. Counterfeit and contraband cigarettes are being sold. In 2013 a total of 4,453 kg of loose tobacco was confiscated. God knows how much gets through. This raises alarm bells as to the possibility or probability that vast numbers of counterfeit cigarettes are being manufactured here. The Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality, which I chair, has had several presentations on this issue.

Often we castigate the retailers, the legal and legitimate business people in shops who comply with the law, gather the revenue, do not advertise the cigarettes and sell them from behind closed doors, as it were. They are competing with the illegal trade in a big way. They tell us that people are openly selling smuggled or counterfeit cigarettes in markets and fairs throughout the country. None of us wants to see cigarettes being sold. If possible I would prefer to ban them completely but we know prohibition does not work. At the same time, we need to do far more to combat the illegal trade in cigarettes. Several suggestions have been brought forward. One is that we increase the penalties for selling and have minimum mandatory fines and penalties for selling illegal and contraband cigarettes. Under the 2009 Act the maximum fine was increased to €126,000. However, the average fine for selling illegal cigarettes in 2011 was only €1,200. In Switzerland barcodes have been embedded on legal cigarette packaging in order that the police - in our case it would be the Garda - can, using a smartphone app, see straight away whether a package is legitimate.

If it does not have a bar code, which can be detected easily, the pack can be confiscated.

There is a concern that the plain packaging might make easier for counterfeiters to copy it because they will have only one version to produce. If that is the case, we must be careful because if we do not clamp down on the illicit trade in a big way, we could end up facilitating more criminality, which is a major issue. Significant criminal gangs that were previously engaged in other activities have moved into this area and there are various estimates as to how much they are earning per annum from this illegal trade, but there is general agreement that it runs into hundreds of millions of euro. The other side of the coin is that people do not know what they are buying. Anything could be found in these cigarettes, and, for example, they might not even have filters. I have read reports of rat poison and other materials being found in illegal cigarettes.

We therefore need to increase awareness and improve education around the dangers of smoking. If one goes by any secondary school in the country, there will be youngsters outside smoking. Tobacco packaging was designed to be attractive to girls, in particular, and to fit into their purses. The packages are colourful and, as the Minister said, resemble perfume boxes. It is appalling that slimline cigarettes were designed for girls and packaged in colourful boxes to fit in their purses in order that they would feel and look cool. That is the mentality behind selling this dangerous product. The legislation may lead to a reduction in the legal sale of cigarettes, but I challenge the Minister to take on the counterfeit trade because that is increasing. Studies have highlighted that the more the price of a packet and excise duty are increased, the more people embrace the illegal trade, which is a problem. It is difficult to measure how much is sold on the black market, but the penalties can be increased.

More X-ray scanners are needed at our ports to capture and track the illegal importation of cigarettes. They are getting in, even though shipments have been confiscated, because it is an extremely lucrative trade. It is estimated that there were 770 million illicit cigarettes in the State in 2011, which is an enormous number. We can read the statistics for the legal trade but we do not know accurately what is happening in the context of the illicit trade in tobacco.

I welcome the smoking ban in public places such as public houses and restaurants, which was a fantastic move. However, a student said to me recently that what is happening now is that people are moving outside to the smoking areas and they have become great social areas to meet and interact. I wonder whether the problem has moved outside from inside. Perhaps we need to examine this again.

Will the Minister comment on the legal action by the World Trade Organization involving Australia, which was the first country to ban non-plain packaging? If Australia loses this legal action, it may have to compensate the manufacturers in countries that have taken the action. Is it the Minister's intention to proceed with the legislation before this legal action is finalised? Would it be better to await the outcome rather than ploughing ahead? Do the implications of this decision need to be considered?

Members have quoted different reports. There is a report in today's edition of The Daily Telegraphwhich states that tobacco sales have increased in Australia despite plain packaging. I do not know whether that is true, but the report was commissioned by the tobacco industry and, therefore, it comes with a major health warning. However, at the same time, we need to consider the report to establish the accurate position. A KPMG study indicated that illicit tobacco sales had increased from 11.8% to 13.3% in Australia up to June 2013. There are issues in this regard about which we must be careful.

Retailers Against Smuggling has proposed that the sale of cigarettes at fairs and markets be banned. Perhaps this should be considered.

The Minister has youth clubs and groups under his remit. As a former teacher I know that when one is the classroom and has a captive audience and one tells teenagers what to do, very often that does not work. Will he consider using youth organisations and youth workers? Youth workers can have engagement and a relationship with young people and teenagers, in particular, which is more powerful and personal in some instances than the interactions they have in schools and classrooms. Because the relationship is informal, laid-back and friendly, health promotion messages, particularly anti-smoking messages, can be delivered in a more powerful way. Hopefully, in the upcoming budget, there will be an increase in funding for the youth sector and youth organisations such as Youth Work Ireland and Foróige, because they could do significant work in combatting tobacco use among young people. Tobacco companies target young people and try to make it look cool for young people to smoke. Will the Minister encourage and support the youth organisations to combat the scourge of tobacco smoking? They are in a powerful position to do that.

I recently met a retailer whose understanding of what was coming down the tracks was that all cigarette packs would look the same except for a small logo that would signify the brand. He said it would be difficult to pick out a particular brand when a customer came into the shop and this would cause many problems for his staff. It is minor issue but he was serious about it. I said I would raise it in the House, for what it was worth, because he is a legal retailer who obeys the law. This is an important issue for him because he says it will increase his staff costs and it will take up more time. It is a practical issue for someone on the ground and we should listen to what he has to say because he is obeying the law. We should clamp down more on illegal traders and support those who are trading legally and who collect revenue for the State. When he raised it with me I wondered whether he was having me on, but it is a serious issue for him and we must take everything into account.

It will be interesting to see how the legislation progresses and the impact it has. We need to monitor it as much as possible, but I wish the legislation well.

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