Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Catherine Murphy made a very important point, and it is something I am very conscious of because in many ways the easiest thing to do is legislate. It is much more difficult to change behaviour or change a culture. There is a tiny minority of people whose first attitude, no matter what we legislate for, is to find a way around it as opposed to saying, "This is a cultural change". The changes we brought about yesterday regarding State appointments are cultural shifts that will have a huge impact. There are ways around everything but the suite of measures this Government has put in place - the broadening of the powers of the Ombudsman, the deepening of the powers of SIPOC, the extension of freedom of information into so many areas, the register of lobbyists - will be transformative of the political horizon. There is no doubt it will take a while to bed it in. Will it cure all ills? Of course not, but it will be transformative and I hope will be the basis for the maintenance of trust in politics into the future.

I have already said that county managers will be incorporated. That question was posed by Deputy Catherine Murphy. She made one other point of which I want to make mention, namely, that somehow corrupt planning has provided accommodation in a dispersed way for people. It is an interesting point. In the county council I was a member of at the time, when all the Dublin controversies about corruption were rife a member of Wexford County Council stood up and said, "We'll give planning permission to somebody for a stand alone house anywhere, and the only pay-off we want is their vote". That might be a form of corruption but all of us believe that people have the right to live in rural Ireland as well. We cannot simply say that we can determine centrally where people have the right to live.

The funny thing about democracy is that we do not always have to agree with the decisions. The Green Party members were great believers in democracy, in the law of administration, as long as people did what they believed in, and they believed anything outside that scope was somehow a corrupt decision. Sometimes a democratic decision, impartially, without corruption coming about, gives us a result we do not like.

Deputy Creed talked about the general view of politics and the reform of politics, and I strongly agree with him. We will see that the suite of measures we have enacted and have still to enact in our five-year term will be transformative. He makes a very important point about which I want to reassure him, that is, the right of citizens to access their Deputies. That is not to be impacted upon good, bad or indifferent by this legislation or any other legislation. It might be something many people talk about. Many people write about clientelism but I believe it is not only a very important strength of our democratic system, it is an anchoring strength. My dear friend and colleague, the Minister for Finance, is in the Chamber and he, no more than myself, will know that one can attend very important European Council meetings, come back and still have to deal, rightly, with the minutiae of one's constituency problems. That is very informing of the way we do business in this country and a unique strength of our democratic system.

Deputy Bannon talked about the two year process of bringing the Bill to this current Stage. I believe that was a good two years. A pre-legislative engagement with people is a good thing in that we are not presenting a finished package, so to speak, but setting out our thoughts, engaging with those concerned and taking on board people's concerns even before we bring a Second Stage presentation to this House. I thank the Deputy for his warm welcome of the Bill and the principles that underline it.

Deputy Stanton talked about the experience in Australia and the United States. All of those have been carefully considered in the crafting of this legislation.

As we are culturally different and different in scale, we need a bespoke solution to problems that are unique to us.

I have dealt with the issue of the cooling off period.

I thank all Deputies for their contributions and look forward to a robust debate on Committee Stage. As with all legislation, particularly reforming legislation, I will approach the debate on Committee Stage with an open mind to hear suggestions that would improve it.

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