Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Some people are missing the point. I repeat what I said earlier, namely, that NewERA does not have any executive functions in its own right. In other words, it advises but does not execute; nor does it not take unto itself any power. It was established in an advisory capacity as a source of dedicated corporate finance expertise to be made available to relevant Ministers. It is open to Ministers to request NewERA to provide project management services or oversee the acquisition or disposal of an interest in an asset of a designated body or any winding up, reorganisation or restructuring of such a body. Ministers will continue to be accountable in the normal way for the performance of their executive functions. Obviously, they can be held accountable in dealing with parliamentary questions, motions tabled in the Dáil in Private Members' time, questions on the Order of Business and Leaders' Questions. There is no question of the Opposition or any Member on this side of the House not being able to raise issues of concern to him or her in a variety of ways. There is also the possibility of matters being raised at the relevant committees and of these committees requesting the presence of the relevant Ministers or Ministers of State or interested parties in order to discuss them. Contrary to what has been stated, there is total accountability to the House, its committees and the Seanad on all of these issues.

The issue of the disposal of an interest in a commercial semi-state body was discussed at some length on Committee Stage. As stated, commercial semi-state bodies are all established under legislation in a variety of ways and have statutory functions and obligations. There is no one simple answer to the question of whether a Minister could dispose of an interest in a commercial semi-state body. Legislation relating to State companies generally permits, subject to ministerial consent, the disposal of assets or shares in certain subsidiaries. For example, the ESB was able to sell individual power generation assets without the need for additional primary legislation. In the case of Bord Gáis Energy, however, the introduction of primary legislation was required because the business that was sold - the supply of gas - was a statutory function of Bord Gáis. In the context of Bord na Móna, section 16(3) of the Turf Development Act 1998 provides that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform shall not, unless authorised by Dáil Éireann by resolution to do so, reduce his or her holding of shares to less than a majority of the issued shares. There is, therefore, a clear obligation to seek the authorisation of the Dáil in that instance. As stated, the shares in Irish Water - Uisce Éireann - cannot be disposed of under the relevant legislation.

Given that the commercial semi-state bodies on which NewERA will advise are all established under statute, it is extremely difficult to imagine a situation where any of the designated bodies could be sold without amending the underpinning legislation. A critical point is that a potential buyer would inevitably and properly seek legal certainty before committing to acquiring a designated entity. I return to the point that while Ministers may request NewERA to provide project management services or for oversight of the disposal of an interest in a designated body, it cannot do so in its own right. Allowing Ministers to use NewERA does not give them any more power than they already possess in respect of specific State assets. Ministers will remain accountable to the Oireachtas and be obliged to bring before it and justify the need for the required legislation. The effect of amendment No. 6 would be to remove from a Minister the possibility of using NewERA expertise where it is proposed to acquire or dispose of an interest in a commercial semi-state body or to wind up, restructure or reorganise such a body. To the extent that a Minister has the power to do any of these things, as matters stand and in the absence of legislative change, all the provision does is allow him or her to use public sector expertise. If legislation has to be changed in order to do any of the things envisaged, that must happen and every Member of the Oireachtas will have his or her say in that regard.

The National Pensions Reserve Fund Act 2000, under which the NPRF was established in order to pre-fund the burden of pensions on the Exchequer from 2025 onwards, was amended in 2009 to allow the Minister for Finance, in certain circumstances, to direct the NPRF commission to invest in financial institutions. This was the mechanism used to recapitalise the banks following the financial crisis. As stated, we are carrying over this provision as a precautionary measure, with the obvious difference being that the Minister would be giving a direction to the agency, rather than the commission. We do not foresee our ever having to use this provision but, to put the matter in colloquial terms, it is nice to know it is there.

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