Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I am sorry but I had to leave for a couple of minutes. I have some detailed notes on the comments. Since becoming Minister for Social Protection, my officials and I have devoted an enormous amount of time to getting defined benefit pensions schemes in particular across the line so as to save schemes from closing. That has happened to significant numbers of schemes, particularly since the onset of the economic crash. I do not want to comment on individual schemes but the most important act is to seek to save schemes and, if we can, get them across the line. I am happy that since we changed the legislation, the number of schemes moving to a significantly better position and which can continue has increased.

For the members of schemes, current workers and deferred and retired members, I appreciate these are very difficult issues. In many cases changes are agreed to make a scheme viable and I hope that in future, with returns on the markets improving, members may agree to changes allowing the overall liabilities of schemes to be diminished. If financial conditions improve, it may be possible to continue schemes, with the different positions of members being recovered.

Many people here have spoken at times about Ireland potentially defaulting, and I have always been of the opinion that it would have been unwise for a variety of reasons. People may have seen stories recently about the court cases in the United States relating to Argentina, which defaulted way back in 2001. We are now in 2014 but that country is still unable to resolve the issues arising from the default 13 years ago. It has been reported on the financial pages of most national and international newspapers that Argentina is potentially at risk of a further default many long years after its first.

Many defined benefit schemes have been seriously affected, as the pensions regulator pointed out on numerous occasions, by the catastrophes that occurred on the financial markets. If we can get schemes to address some deficit issues - I will not speak about a particular scheme - and members can reach agreement, this could come with a continued recovery in stock markets and particularly with regard to government debt and international bonds. People are aware, for example, that Irish debt is on sale now at only a small margin above the German debt rates. People may also have seen in recent months that Ireland's ranking has improved enormously, and such events set the ground conditions for significant potential recovery, provided scheme members can reach agreement. I certainly hope that can happen.

Members are concerned about issues being brought before the Labour Court and into the industrial relations forums. The industrial relations issues are not a matter for this Department, although I understand what Deputies have said regarding the Minister responsible for industrial relations, who is examining the matter. The matter of going to the High Court is again a matter for that forum.

Trustees are already compelled to act in the best interests of all members. Section 3 of the Act already makes it an offence for a trustee to fail to notify members where the Pensions Authority makes a direction for a scheme to restructure benefits. The object has to be to seek to get schemes into a recovery position.

I am happy to say that has happened in respect of several schemes. I am fully aware that these are exceptionally difficult negotiations, particularly given the long and complex histories of several of the schemes. I do not have any power to act in respect of the industrial relations legislation. It is a matter for the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation but I will certainly convey the views Members have expressed in this debate to him.

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