Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

The issue of the recovery of overpayments, particularly in relation to fraud, is significant for the Department. If my memory serves me correctly, it amounted to €73 million last year, almost the cost of the free travel scheme. The sums involved are significant.

I do not propose to accept this amendment. In response to Deputy Ó Snodaigh, the Committee of Public Accounts and the Comptroller and Auditor General require the Department to recover overpayments. The Department, unlike the Revenue Commissioners, does not charge penalties or interest. I note this can be a sensitive issue.

The Department has existing powers of attachment in relation to earnings and amounts held in financial institutions by debtors. It takes a measured approach in the use of its existing powers. From correspondence I have seen from Deputies, I am aware that they often intervene if they feel there are extenuating circumstances of which the Department ought to be made aware. I, as Minister, and officials have been happy to take that into account where we have received that information.

The existing powers are operated within strict guidelines that contain explicit safeguards. They are only exercised where a person with a debt continuously ignores his or her obligations to repay what is legally due to the State, and where it is established that there is a reasonable capacity to pay. Fundamentally, the provision is underpinned by the capacity-to-pay principle. Where a notice of attachment is considered, a final demand issues to the person concerned advising him or her of the consequences of not repaying. Before the Department moves to issuing a final demand, it has already undertaken a protracted process to endeavour to get the overpaid person to engage with the Department about his or her debt and to discharge what is legally due. The overpaid person is given an opportunity to make representations so that any factors associated with the recovery of the overpayment can be duly considered. The overpaid person has an opportunity to advise an officer of the Minister of all outgoings and the person's financial circumstances. This will critically inform whether a notice of attachment is issued and what amounts should be contained in the notice of attachment.

The new provision in this Bill will allow the Department to consider recovery of social welfare debts from amounts due to be paid to its debtors from other State funds. The safeguards that are built in to the existing powers of attachment will also continue to apply in these cases. The overall objective of my Department's debt recovery policy is to maximise the recovery of overpayments to protect public money at a time of scarce resources. All overpayments due to the Department must be repaid. Unlike other agencies, in particular, the Revenue Commissioners, we do not charge penalties or interest. The recovery of funds is an important cash flow for the Department. I would not like the Department to be berated by the Committee of Public Accounts because it did not recover a sufficient amount of the money due to the Department.

The system is operated carefully and all avenues are exhausted to get the person to agree to the return of an overpayment. As the Deputy stated, the amounts involved, in terms of somebody who is on a social welfare payment, are strictly limited to 15% of the primary social welfare payment and other social welfare payments in respect of dependants or children are not included. It is only in respect of the primary social welfare payment for the person concerned.

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