Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I, too, welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Bill. It is timely that we are amending and extending the 2003 and 2006 Acts and that the provisions in respect of employment permit schemes are being updated in line with policy and economic development since 2007. There have been many and varied changes since 2007, at which time there had also been many changes which were perhaps not encompassed in legislation. This Bill also provides flexibility to deal with changing labour markets, work patterns and economic development needs, which often require a rapid response. As an employer in a traditional industry, I know that change is happening on a daily basis. I am sure the Minister and his officials are well aware of this. We must ensure we have in place a robust employment permit regime and address the deficiencies identified in previous legislation, thereby allowing employers to benefit from those changes. The market in which we are currently operating is very pressurised. It is also IT-driven, which is a far cry from the situation that pertained in business when I first got involved in 1982. We now live in a vastly different society and a time of next-day or hourly delivery of services. It is hard to keep up with the Googles of the world in terms of technology. This loosening of the permit system to meet needs and challenges in terms of employment is overdue. It will allow employers to enter into contracts. Most contracts now include a completion date, delivery time and so on.

There are punishment and penalty clauses if one does not deliver on time. While it may have been necessary to introduce this, it is very hard on employers. When seeking markets and work contracts, employers need to have flexibility to employ staff with a variety of skills from within and outside the State.

We used to say Ireland is a small place, but the world is now a small place, given the nature of the modern economy and technology and the access we have to various locations by air and sea. If we are to continue recovering in Ireland, it is vital that we be able to adapt to new challenges, everyday needs, changing needs and the fast pace of change.

I welcome most aspects of the Bill but wonder whether it goes far enough in certain areas. According to the explanatory memorandum, Part 3, for instance, amends the Act of 2006 to "Further provide for the Employment Permit system and give a clear legal basis for having different types of employment permits for different purposes, and additional criteria and rules in determining whether to refuse an application for an employment permit or to grant it". This is vital if we are to meet the needs and listen to the cries of the drivers of industry, including manufacturers and the service industry. Quite clearly, we must have different horses for different courses and a more flexible approach to gaining access to the required skills. I refer to the qualifications, education, passion and vision required by the employer. Obviously, we must always have respect for native employees, who are entitled to certain rights according to certain regulations. These rights must be respected, but when certain skill sets are not available among the Irish, we need to have a tailor-made scheme to allow staff to be recruited from abroad and granted permits almost immediately. This would allow employers to fulfil their contracts.

The proposed section 3A sets out the different purposes for which employment permits can be granted, and can be regarded as the Bill’s principles and policies. This is the right approach but I hope the various legislative provisions and regulations are not too cumbersome. As we know, many provisions seem fine until they are put into law. The legislation we are amending is from seven years ago. The change is long overdue. What we are now legislating for could fast become out of date, perhaps in 15 or 18 months. That is the nature of the beast as it evolves. It is very hard for the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and its officials to keep pace with needs of those at the coalface. While we engage in consultation and ask for submissions, I honestly believe, without disrespect to any Minister or official in any Department, that we need to engage more ordinarily with the companies, big and small, at the coalface and ask them for their input. They are always very busy and under pressure. Perhaps, heretofore, engagement was with State agencies and the Revenue Commissioners, thus resulting in a them-and-us scenario. That is a pity. We need to change the culture and have the companies as partners with a major input into the amendment of legislation. At any stage, one should be ready to pick up the telephone to support companies and give them information so they will not have to go from one department to the next and so they will not have to spend money they may not be able to afford on legal expertise and consultants to interpret legislation we pass in this House. Everything now seems to be consultant-driven.

Previous speakers have asked whether there is racism in Ireland and whether we are against certain races that may not be Irish or EU citizens. I do not believe so. I believe we had a problem in this country, even during the boom. More than 100,000 people were unemployed during the busiest and craziest hazy days of the boom. We must determine why this was the case. We are slipping in some cases. I am sad to say that there are some families who have not worked in a job for three generations. While it is fine that we have various schemes, etc., we must examine the fundamental issue as to why people are not job-ready. I understand that circumstances have changed from ten or 20 years ago. It is hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear regarding IT skills for older people. People over my age were not brought up in the IT era and must try to grapple with it. Perhaps we should focus more on this area.

We ought to have a fundamental review of our education structure, from kindergarten to third level, in order to learn why we do not have the skill sets that we must import from abroad. I have no problem with bringing in staff. It is great to have outside people. My daughter works with the Kerry Group. People of all nationalities have moved to Ireland with the group and are working very successfully here. They are playing a huge part and a very important role. However, we must be able to produce the skill sets that are needed and meet the challenge. I have heard various industries and Americans in the US embassy saying quite clearly that when American companies announce jobs here, they cannot recruit the staff they want here in Ireland. They have been saying this for nigh-on seven years, or since I came to this House and had an opportunity to meet them in various settings. I am sure the Minister is well aware of this. We must ask ourselves why this is the case.

The status of our universities was second to none. I am not here to knock the universities but am saying we need to re-examine and refocus and ask whether we are training students so they will have the right skills mix. Are we over-training in some areas and consequently unable to change and meet the challenges that arise? I blame the Department of Education and Skills and the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. Since the inception of the State, they have been doing great work, but we need to change and adapt. The permanent government needs to do so if it is to understand and meet the various challenges. Our universities should and must focus more on listening to companies such as Google and the ICT professionals about whom we are talking. The health sector is recruiting a large number of such people from abroad. We need them in the area of finance also. Our education sector, therefore, is lagging behind and slacking.

Many of our forefathers and families went all over the world and were accepted. I acknowledge that they worked hard with basic skills - there is no substitute for hard work. They engaged in huge projects all over the world and integrated into their respective communities. Perhaps they were not as welcome as they should have been at the time, but we are now in a different era. We must be ready for the challenge.

I had the very pleasant experience recently of having an intern from an African country. It was a pleasure to have her in the Houses with me for nearly eight months. She interacted very well. She was brought here through Crosscare along with a number of her colleagues. I only hope I was able to give her the benefit of some of my experience of the political system here. Certainly, I gained valuable experience from having her in my office for the period in question. I learned an awful lot, including about racism and the perception of racism. I asked her on the first day how I should introduce her. She said I should introduce her as a black woman. She said we had a problem with that, but that she and her colleagues did not have a problem with being called black.

Honestly, I was told this. Perhaps those in the media and those of us in the House are too shy and too concerned about racism. While racism cannot be tolerated in any shape or form, maybe we are too afraid to have people of all colours of skin working and involved here. Many of them are up and at it, and I dealt with many in the last couple of weeks during the election, including in two companies which I dealt with regarding postering and sign-writing in Tipperary. In both companies, which are local Clare-based companies, the main staff are from countries other than Ireland. One could not meet finer people to work with; they met their deadlines and were hugely professional. I suppose we all need to change and to refocus.

With regard to the question of agencies, I want to refer to the National Employment Rights Authority, NERA, which was dealing with employment regulation. As I have said for years, since the start of the recession, NERA is too focused on employment rights. Its name should be changed, along with its focus, and it should become an employment support agency. It should go out and help employers, not come in flashing the card all the time. It should be sent out to businesses which are struggling and which want to be listened to. It should be used as an agency that deals with the feelings, depressions and challenges that employers face, and bring this information back to the Department, instead of being a national employment rights body. While the employment rights side is necessary and legislation must be observed, I believe that either NERA should be disbanded or its role should be changed to that of a national employer support agency, as well as having the remit of looking after employment rights. I am certainly not saying employers should abuse any employee, but the focus must be changed. NERA was over-staffed and over-zealous in the good times. Its staff are still there and it still has regional offices all over the country because we got carried away with ourselves. We need to refocus NERA and tell it how to assist business people. We must assist employers all the time rather than having the Revenue Commissioners and everybody else sending them letters and demands. Small, indigenous employers will be the backbone of our recovery. If we do not have them, we will kill the entrepreneurial spirit, which we have killed to a large extent through NERA and the plethora of health and safety agencies. I agree with all of that, but it has gone over the top. Some people in these agencies have never created a job and would not know how to run a business. More of these officials should come from the business sector, where they have walked the walk and talked the talk, as they will be able to give support to companies.

I welcome many aspects of the Bill, which is long overdue. This area has to be loosened and we have to be more effective. Above all, whether workers come from another country or from Ireland, work has to be worthwhile, with a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. It cannot cost people to go into employment, because that does not make sense. There are expenses around being at work. Work must be profitable and people must have a reasonable reward for a fair day's work, no matter what country they come from.

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