Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I am delighted to have an opportunity to speak on this important legislation, which provides for something to which we all aspire. Like other speakers, I would like to roundly condemn the attack on the Minister's home recently. Such activity, brought on for whatever reason, is unacceptable. It is a breach of human rights. It is also a breach of basic democracy for anybody to decide that they have the right to take something out on somebody because they disliked something the person said, disliked the person for religious reasons, reasons of sexual orientation or whatever the case may be. They have no right to engage in such activity and are attempting to deprive others of their basic democratic rights. It goes without saying that those who tend to move in that direction should be warned that this is not the first time that has happened. We have had such incidents before, great and small, all over this country and all over the globe and we should have learned a lesson from them. If we have not learned a lesson from them by now, then unfortunately, we are beyond learning. I hope we have not gone that far yet.

I welcome the legislation and pay respect to the work of those who dealt with human rights and equality issues previously, Mr. Crowley, and a former colleague, Mr. Maurice Manning.

They did a very difficult job and established certain cornerstones on equality and human rights which hopefully will stand the test of time and be reinforced in the legislation.

There is an old saying that one person's human rights could be an abuse of somebody else's human rights but this is not necessarily so. If we live in a world of reasonable equality where we respect each other we should not find ourselves in a position where we must trample on somebody else's rights to gain our own. Neither should we have our rights trampled upon by others for whatever reason. The rights of the individual are sacrosanct and must be borne in mind at all times. Failure to do so is a serious flaw in our society.

Deputy Stanton passed remarks on the activities of somebody abusing a candidate in the European elections. The people who do such things may feel brave. They may feel they represent something they read on social media or heard on a street corner and that they are carrying out some deed on behalf of society. Sadly they are not. All they are doing is reproducing again the appalling basic human weaknesses of arrogance and an unwillingness to recognise anybody else's position but one's own.

An important matter all of us in the business of public life know is that we must recognise the right to free speech, not necessarily to offend others but to speak and represent ourselves and those around us. If we fail to do so, and if we fail to observe these rights, we are not doing our job. It comes back to basic democracy. From the fledgling time of emerging democracies all over the globe the very first sign of democracy and society breaking down was when there were those who refused to listen to the other point of view.

The other point of view must be borne in mind and the manner in which the view is expressed is also important. We do not have to express the view as if we were speaking to a condemned person in a cell. We can extol the virtues of what we hold sincerely and dearly without causing offence to the other person. Recently I saw two people exchange views in a public place. Members of the public had a most insulting attitude towards a public representative for no reason except prejudice, begrudgery and a feeling society had done them a bad deed or had given them a short straw. I believe it was Voltaire who advised us not to spend so much time complaining about the hand of cards life dealt us but to spend a little more time on playing them effectively to win the game. This was good advice.

The Celtic tiger certainly did many good things for us. It gave us new life and vision and the impression we could do things which previously seemed to be beyond our reach. It also gave us a certain amount of arrogance that if we were not able to achieve our own aspirations we had to blame somebody for it and we could take it out on those who appeared to be in the way. Something very similar happened in the 1930s all over the globe. In the United States John Steinbeck wrote about the rolling hordes of people who found themselves jobless, homeless and roaming across the States looking for work and a reason to exist. Steinbeck looked at it very carefully and showed how the human being reacts in certain circumstances. Some withstood the test, some did not and some fell appallingly short of it.

At that time in the United States President Roosevelt was the right person in the right place as it happened. He convinced the people to hold on, that good would prevail eventually and that they would survive. He coerced them, challenged them, threatened them and cajoled them but he kept them in line to a fair extent. In tragic contrast the people of Europe did something different. At that time there were signs which are showing again. These are signs of intolerance and the extreme left and right coming together in common cause and having a particular reason to object in strenuous fashion. They were hurt because they had lost. The roaring 20s were roaring in more ways than one but the hungry 30s came afterwards. In the hungry 30s the hurt was so great that people buckled and looked around to find somebody whom they thought was responsible, perhaps people with money or people of a different religion. What an appalling disaster to visit upon the people of the globe. A total of 60 million people died and there are still people who state it did not really happen and that the Holocaust did not happen. People in our lifetime state this, but sadly it did happen with the approval of the people at the time.

Let us not forget for one minute the chief artist in this scenario was elected by the people. In recent weeks I heard people stating in this House that by virtue of their election whatever they did afterwards was always right. This is not so. If there was ever a single issue where this was challenged it was in Europe in the 1930s, when somebody was elected to public office with the support of people who were well-qualified, such as academics and professionals, who should have known better but did not. We know what happened. Let this be a lesson for those in our society who like to take it upon themselves to condemn others and presume others have lesser rights or entitlements to democratic principles and human rights. Let us remind ourselves these things have happened before because people did nothing about it. People did not stand up to it, question it or challenge it and when they did it was too late.

We need to learn a lesson from this, and now is as good a time as any because we have been aware of the points raised by Deputy Stanton for some time. There is a growing disrespect for the rights of others and this should not be the case. We should have evolved past this and developed to the extent that we automatically recognise the rights and entitlements of others without impinging on our rights or theirs. For my various sins I was one of the people in the original convention which drew up the European Charter of Fundamental Rights. It was an interesting experience particularly as the meetings took place in Europe, the very cauldron to which I referred a moment ago.

I wish to remark on how we address ourselves in the House. I remember when the language used and the manner in which a viewpoint was intoned was somewhat different from what is now. This is something we must consider. There was a time a number of years past when perhaps a much more academic debate took place, with distinct respect for the view of the other person when one did not agree. I think we will lose this. We have developed a somewhat different attitude, whereby it is believed and accepted that to get a viewpoint across we must be disparaging about the person to whom our views are directed. This is the first, saddest and most basic flaw in what our society is showing up now. It is a product of the Celtic tiger when we became arrogant.

Perhaps we must humble ourselves a little. Whatever it is that we must do as a society, one can do great things without being offensive or obnoxious. I hope people have learned a lesson in this regard on foot of some of the things that have happened in recent times.

I have heard, seen and read - as I am sure has everyone else - expressions by people on social media and in print, some of whom are professional people, of such a nature as to create hatred. In any modern society, I believe there is a need for incitement to hatred legislation that identifies such behaviour. While it may be simple or bland at the outset, some people in the social and print media come back to their subject by a different route. One must realise that a person who receives such information electronically or by way of print may be impressionable. Such people may have an impression created in their minds that this is the choice to make, this is what must be done and this is the way in which one should treat people. I believe that to be really effective, legislation on the issue of incitement to hatred must consider the area to which I have just referred. It could be beneficial and could provide for a situation in which people do not say or do what they wish when they wish, at the expense of everyone else. Moreover, it should never be that way.

I refer, as did other speakers earlier, to ethnic groups and minority groups. The manner in which a society treats minorities tells one everything about that society. We tend to be a little vague about some aspects of the manner in which we treat others, that is, those who are members of minorities. I can only make the point that as a nation and as a people, we have gone over the world. Irish people have travelled everywhere out of necessity, out of adventure or for whatever reason. We always have been received everywhere, although there have been times when Irish people were not received all that well and when they were the victims of discrimination. However, this is all the more reason for Irish people to make absolutely certain that they do not ever practice discrimination anywhere, as they cannot afford to so do. Irish people cannot afford to point at anyone or at any minority group anywhere because one should remember that we were those minorities and were ourselves in that position in different countries all over the world. Moreover, we continue to be. While I would like to hope we have earned the respect of the nations to which we have travelled, we must continue to observe the highest standards and enforce the highest standards in so far as the observation of human rights and entitlements are concerned.

I have one or two other points to make. It comes home to each Member in different ways as to what he or she should or can do for society. Currently, Members are told in this Chamber on a daily basis that because of financial cutbacks and austerity as it is called, they are wreaking havoc on society and are doing this deliberately. No, they are not. No one, either in government or, I am sure, in opposition, would do anything of that nature willingly. Sadly, the Government arrived at the position in which it found itself largely on foot of the failure of certain instruments outside Members' immediate control. Having looked back on this, some Members of this House pointed out things that were happening, as well as others that should have happened but did not. However, people scoffed at that and asked what would those fools know, as they were not really into it. People know now and this is the aftermath of all that. Moreover, there was no other way. I am not one of those who goes down the road of stating the Government should have found a different, easier or better way. There was no such other way. We have been there before, as this circumstance has been repeated many times previously. However, it is so sad to see children with special needs, older people in difficult circumstances and others seeking and awaiting services. This is very like the 1930s again, in that people are waiting for services that are taking so long to be delivered. It is heart-rending to be obliged to look at the people concerned in such circumstances and to be able to do very little about it.

On the other hand, one often sees things and complains about one's ills and the fact that one does not have what one wants. Often, one is better off than one thinks. Many in society often are far better off than they think. One can work oneself into a tizzy and a total and absolute depression by bringing more of it upon oneself. I make this point simply because were people in Ireland to compare themselves with other European countries right across Europe, including some of the richest countries, they would find Ireland is not doing too badly. I acknowledge it has not achieved the same efficiencies and has not achieved the delivery that some appear to have managed but in respect of GDP per capita, Ireland is not doing too badly. This is a point people must recognise when they make comparisons with others. Moreover, over the past couple of years people in this country have criticised some of our colleagues throughout Europe, allegedly on the basis that they have been punishing Ireland. It is necessary to examine their own respective economies, as it should be noted they also punish themselves, which is a sad fact of life.

When economic implosion takes place, it undoubtedly affects everyone. It affects the poorest worst of all but it affects everyone and some people to such an extent that they seek the only way out which they could think of, which also is a sad thing. I wish to conclude on this point and refer again to discrimination, to which Deputy Stanton also made reference. Moreover, many Members have tabled parliamentary questions relating to this subject matter which they follow from time to time. Why should it be that teenagers, for example, seem inadequate to deal with discrimination of whatever nature such as bullying? It appears to go on indefinitely in a vicious and incisive way to such an extent that the victims find they can only take one way out. This is a sad flaw in our society and should not be happening at all. Moreover, this has nothing to do with wealth or the lack thereof. It pertains to a viciousness that is difficult to control when it takes off of its own accord - this has happened in the past both in this jurisdiction and others - to represent the ugly side of an evolving society. Such unfortunate trends should be combated in a manner that is decisive and meaningful, without trampling on anyone's human rights.

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