Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Niall Collins sends his apologies for not being able to be here. He would have welcomed the opportunity to speak on this issue.

Debates on crime may not always be based on rational thinking; sometimes they are emotive and try to stoke up fear. I welcome this debate for a number of reasons. For many years we have sometimes used crime as a political weapon to strike fear into people for reasons which are not necessarily correct. At this stage as a society we must address a number of fundamental issues, including the causes of crime, why crimes are more prevalent in some areas than others, the difficulties in the provision of services to ensure crime is minimised in certain areas, and the impact crime has on a further downward spiral of living standards in some areas. This is a key issue for many State agencies with a role to play in this area.

When we speak about justice, very often we examine the issue in very simplistic terms of An Garda Síochána, the courts, jails, criminals and victims. There is a broader issue at stake which we need to address - that some communities are continually crying out for assistance and help in dealing with crime. Very often this involves the insidious creep of low-level crime which over a period of time escalates. One then finds communities under siege and people end up being embarrassed about saying from where they come. We must target resources at the very early stages. When one speaks to professionals such as teachers and social workers, many of them can identify the children who will end up in Mountjoy Prison or on Rathmore Road at an early stage. They are almost destined for a life in and out of the juvenile courts, progressing to being sentenced for pariticipating in criminal activity as young adults. The fact that they can be identified so early leads me to believe there is much we could do to try to ensure as much support as possible is provided. There may be issues of dysfunctionality in the family, including alcoholism, drug addiction and psychological problems. Many issues form a backdrop to the reasons for engaging in crime. I do not want to oversimplify the issue, but we owe it to certain communities where criminality is present continuously. Many people are crying out for help. They are trying to rear their children in these difficult environments, which is unacceptable. I remember travelling some years ago to Leicester and other areas in England to discuss anti-social behaviour orders. Many opinions were given on how they would impact on civil liberties and individual rights and their introduction would amount to a charter to prosecute very young people. The purpose of the anti-social behaviour order I was trying to ensure would be introduced was to reward juveniles by not including them in the criminal justice system at an early stage and steering them along a path towards co-operation with the authorities and away from a path of crime.

Groups of youths gather and, by and large, most of them behave themselves, but there is an intimidatory aspect to some of the congregations in certain areas. One knows there is always peer pressure and that some individuals do not want to be there. There is the slow incremental creep of anti-social behaviour, perhaps with the use of alcohol and drugs and involving low-level criminality. We should be more proactive in trying to discourage youths from taking this pathway. I am not trying to oversimplify the issue, but if large cohorts of youths consistently gather in places where they can be monitored in terms of illegal activity, there should be a way to intervene at an early stage, rather than waiting for them to break the law in a serious way. We speak about the provision of youth facilities and soccer, rugby and GAA pitches, but we need greater interaction with An Garda Síochána through community policing and juvenile liaison officers who do wonderful work.

We need an assistant Commissioner with responsibility for community policing. Involvement in community policing should not be seen as a dead end, somewhere to park a member of An Garda Síochána, but as a central role in policing. The structure of the police force means that one must work and be involved in dealing with serious crimes to have better promotional prospects. A central tenet of any good police force involves the concept of community policing. We should, therefore, have an assistant commissioner with responsibility for community policing in order that it will be seen as almost an essential element by a member of An Garda Síochána in terms of career advancement.

I believe that at times, we do not value appropriately the work of those members of An Garda Síochána who call to a house to discuss a problem with a young person. Such gardaí know their community intimately, they also know the other professionals in that community, be they teachers, social workers or people in leadership positions in sports organisations or elsewhere, whereby there is a whole-of-community approach working to try to ensure that children and young adults do not end up heading to the children's court or another court at the first point of contact. I believe this area to be critical.

On restorative justice, I compliment Deputy Halligan on raising this issue and publishing the Restorative Justice (Reparation of Victims) Bill 2013. I believe it is on foot of substantial work that was done after a report was commissioned in 2007 on the principle of restorative justice and how it would work, as well as the impact it would have on society, on the individual who perpetrated the crime and, more important, on the victim or victims of crime. The key issue in this regard is that justice obviously must be seen to be done. There must be an expeditious approach to this issue. One cannot have victims of crime hanging around for a long time while waiting for the justice system to respond either through the restorative justice system or through the traditional criminal courts. A more expeditious type of justice system is needed and I believe this is a key area that must be addressed. For example, in respect of the subject of bail, Members refer repeatedly to the revolving door syndrome. There is no point in Members pretending otherwise, as week in and week out, the revolving door syndrome means that people who have just been committed to prison are released again. I am not someone who advocates locking people up and throwing away the key. I am far from that position and represent a constituency that has a prison located in the middle of it. I see how people and families are torn apart by the fact that one of their loved ones - a son or a daughter, although it mainly is sons or husbands - has been locked up for a long time. This of course has a devastating impact on a family.

Equally, however, one must be conscious that in the case of a person who commits a serious offence, there at least must be a genuine perception, in the context of both the criminal and the community itself, that an element of protection will be afforded to a community by the fact that a person is prosecuted, sentenced and will serve a certain length of time. However, when a person is imprisoned, supports and training programmes must be in place. Some effort must be made to ensure that a certain level of rehabilitation has taken place for a person who comes out of prison. For example, many people find it extremely difficult in prisons because of pressures that exist within the structures of prisons themselves. I refer to drug addiction, drug abuse, the intimidatory aspects of prison life and what flows therefrom. One must give people who have been sentenced to prison the chance whereby on leaving prison, they at least have been afforded the opportunity to work in a rehabilitative programme that would be of benefit to them and to broader society. Members repeatedly talk about this requirement and there has been a move from Victorian-type thinking in which it simply is a case of punishment to a rehabilitative-type of prison. However, I wonder whether Members genuinely are doing enough in this regard as with the best will in the world, one could argue that Members perhaps cut these things short because prisoners and their families probably do not vote. Perhaps that is the real reason but it is not good enough. It is necessary to have genuine programmes in place in the prisons. First and foremost, in the case of individuals who have major problems and are addicted to drugs, there at least should be adequate facilities to allow them the opportunity to try to kick the habit. Moreover, it is essential that other rehabilitative programmes are in place. However, at present we are only pretending that such programmes are in place. Were such individuals, who were addicted to drugs, to enter Mountjoy Prison today and were they to make up their mind on the spot that they wished to enter a rehabilitative programme, they could be waiting for a while. I genuinely do not believe this is good enough. Were even that sort of commitment and effort to be made, I would welcome it.

In the few minutes remaining to me, I wish to discuss restorative justice itself with particular emphasis on low-level crime. Deputy Stanton has referred to the projects under way in Nenagh and elsewhere but more important, the larger schemes in operation in New York undoubtedly show that if one has community-type courts and community-type service, one deals with low-level crime at the least complex area where there are the most obvious benefits. In other words, low-level crime is dealt with through community courts and through community service. The community takes ownership of the problem because more than likely, the problem arose from one of the community's own people and that community benefits in turn from the service the offender in question provides to it. It is a genuinely simple idea that should be explored because when one considers it in greater detail, it is more complex than just comprising community courts, service and reward. There is a need to ensure that a streamlined service is in place at which all these matters can be dealt with.

Critically, central to all this is the issue of the victim. Some victims may not seek restorative justice. They may want a person to serve the sentence they consider to be appropriate and may not want any contact with the criminal. While that is their right and entitlement, I believe that were one to begin to break down the barriers between them and us, that is, between those who never break the law and those who always are breaking the law, one could try to understand that most of these people are one's own seed and breed. One must ensure there is some semblance of understanding that people are not born to be criminals but that it is due to the system and to isolation. Societal problems and many other reasons explain why a kid ends up in conflict with his or her community and the law and ultimately is incarcerated. I believe much work must be done in this regard. Many of the reasons and causes are known but I do not believe they have been addressed adequately. I refer to young people who clearly are being identified at an early age by professionals as being people who are vulnerable and are at high risk. However, it appears as though the State through its various services only gets in contact with them when they have committed an offence that would merit a criminal prosecution. I consider this to be simply unacceptable.

On the other end of the scale, victims of crime sometimes feel very isolated and vulnerable because they do not believe the system looks after their interests. They do not believe the system looks after their needs and requirements in ensuring the perpetrator of the crime is punished. The word "punished" sounds fine, provided that at some stage there is a rehabilitative process in place. Regardless of whether it is for a low-level crime or a serious crime, if there is a prosecution or the imposition of community service through a community court, there should be a rehabilitative programme in place. There almost should be an obligation on Members to ensure that when people come out of prison, they at least will have had a chance of bettering themselves while incarcerated.

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