Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

As there are 15 or so minutes left in the Deputy's slot, I thank him for his latitude. It is my intention to address only those points that were pertinent to the Bill. Some political points were made, as were a number that were extraneous to the Bill.

I thank Deputies for their valuable contributions. I will address a number of the issues raised by Deputy Calleary. I welcome his support for the Bill. His praise for the valuable work done by Forfás since its establishment is well deserved. Forfás is one of those organisations that enjoys the confidence of the polity. As a Minister of State, I have witnessed at first hand the expertise and excellence of its people. Their commitment to public service is unfailing. Bringing the policy capability of Forfás into the Department will give the latter the opportunity to strengthen its ability to shape and implement policy and to oversee the performance of its agencies.

Forfás has made a significant contribution to the economy's transformation of recent years, a point that has been made across the political divide. It has been of significant value to the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and the Government in the development of appropriate policy responses to the many enterprise development challenges confronting us.

Forfás has provided robust and independent analysis and advice that has assisted my Department and others in formulating policy positions to drive the policy agenda. This speaks to some of the points made by various Deputies concerning independence. The independent nature of the research and advice that Forfás provides is of great value to the Department. It is not intended that this independent thinking will be diminished by the integration process. Forfás's policy and research functions will form the core of the new strategic policy division in the Department. Co-locating Forfás in the Department will streamline the process between policy development and its implementation, serving to strengthen the Department's role in driving economic recovery. Regardless of whether Deputies were speaking for their own constituencies, everyone who contributed to this debate discussed economic recovery in one way or another and the need to drive the jobs agenda. At its core, Forfás will work in the Department with a view to growing jobs and economic recovery.

I assure the House that our objective is to maintain the independence that we have come to expect from Forfás's research and analysis. There are precedents in the Civil Service for this type of independent work being conducted within a Department. When Ireland was a recipient of significant structural funds in the 1990s, a number of evaluation units were established in the lead Departments responsible for the European Social Fund, the European Regional Development Fund and the European agricultural funds. Although primarily staffed by civil servants, these units independently evaluated individual programmes and published their reports. A central evaluation unit was later established in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and published its reports.

The senior management teams of my Department and Forfás are committed to ensuring that the integration is operationalised in a way that maximises the outcomes in terms of developing and implementing enterprise policy. We are also committed to ensuring that policy advice to other Ministers continues to be informed by robust, evidence-based analysis and through consultation with relevant stakeholders through the strategic policy division.

The capacity of Forfás to support independent advice and analysis will also be maintained through its support for the National Competitiveness Council, NCC, and the Expert Group on Future Skills Needs, EGFSN. The role of the NCC in the context of the Forfás integration has been carefully considered. Revised terms of reference have been approved for the NCC, which will give it greater flexibility to prepare and publish reports on issues it considers important, thereby copper-fastening its independence. I hope that this addresses the concerns expressed by Deputies in this regard.

The EGFSN, which reports jointly to the Ministers for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and Education and Skills, will continue preparing policy papers independently on skills needs and labour market issues that impact on Ireland's enterprise and employment growth. The EGFSN will also be serviced by the strategic policy division.

Deputy Calleary referred to a figure of €11 million in respect of the Forfás research budget in 2013. The Forfás research and studies consultancy budget in 2013 was actually €990,000. There was a further allocation of €125,000 for specialised and professional services, giving a total of approximately €1.1 million. If Deputy Calleary wants to provide us with the source of his figures, we will seek to clarify them for him. While the Forfás research and consultancy budget has been incorporated into my Department's budget for 2014, the Minister and the Department are committed to ensuring that the strategic policy division is properly resourced in this regard. There is no intention to reduce the budget in future years.

Deputy Calleary also raised the issue of Carrisbrook House. Upon the re-organisation of the enterprise development agencies in 1994, Forfás acquired responsibility for the leasehold interests, maintenance and repair of the former IDA headquarters, Carrisbrook House. Forfás managed the buildings until July 2013, when responsibility for the management of the leases and property transferred to IDA Ireland as part of progressing the integration of Forfás with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. Carrisbrook House was originally acquired by AnCO in 1969 on a 65-year full repairing lease. It was one of the Dublin offices occupied by the former IDA up to 1985 when the IDA centralised in Wilton Park House. Since then, Carrisbrook House has been sublet to a number of tenants and was fully sublet by Forfás to the middle of 2008.

Approximately 15% of the building is sublet to an embassy and the remainder of the building is unoccupied, but is being actively marketed to potential new tenants. However, the vacating of the space in question coincided with the economic downturn. Every effort has been made by Forfás to seek replacement tenants or to dispose of the leasehold interest. Working with professional estate agents, a number of marketing initiatives were undertaken since 2008. Forfás has also worked with IDA Ireland in marketing the property for potential tenants.

In 2011 and 2012, Forfás stepped up direct marketing and during this time there were 12 viewings of the building. In the context of difficult market conditions, and despite a number of engagements with potential tenants, a letting has not been secured. The IDA has now assumed responsibility for all properties formerly managed by Forfás and will continue the efforts to secure tenants for Carrisbrook House. The cost of the vacant space in Carrisbrook House was approximately €1.2 million for 2012. It is hoped that as the economy continues to recover and as demand for commercial premises continues to rise, in particular in Dublin, IDA Ireland will be successful in filling the vacant office space in Carrisbrook House.

Deputy Calleary also asked this morning about the Advisory Council on Science, Technology and Innovation, which is supported by Forfás staff. The current membership of the advisory council was stood down with effect from 25 September 2013, pending the finalisation of the Forfás integration process and overall policy on public service reform. This does not rule out the option of establishing an advisory council of a similar nature on an alternative footing if this is deemed appropriate at some stage in the future.

There have been many developments in the research and technology agenda over the past two years. The report of the research prioritisation group was published. We have 14 priority areas arising from that report, giving rise to 14 action plans. Forfás plays an integral part in that process. If it was not for Forfás, it would not be as successful a process, such is the good work it carries out. The process will form the main pillar of our research strategy up to 2017. Deputies might say that I would say that anyway, as Minister of State with responsibility for research, but it is very pertinent to my brief.

A Deputy raised the issue of pensions. A substantial portion of the Forfás non-pay budget for 2014 has been subsumed into the Department's budget to reflect progress to date on the integration project. It is important to state that Forfás also has responsibility for the pension costs of retired staff of Forfás, IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland, Science Foundation Ireland and certain former agencies, such as An Bord Tráchtála, the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards, the National Board for Science and Technology and Eolas, under the Industrial Development Acts 1993 to 2003. As legal employer of 1,150 staff across the development agencies, Forfás centrally manages the pension schemes of Forfás itself and its preceding organisations, the associated pension compliance obligations and related staff benefits and insurance scheme. I hope that goes towards answering the points made about the outturns for 2013 and 2014 in respect of pensions.

There are 32 staff and two heads of division to be assigned to the strategic policy division. That question was asked in respect of staffing. Deputy Broughan made a number of points, one of which was about social enterprise. That is not pertinent to this Bill, but there is an interdepartmental group on social enterprise which meets me and the social enterprise task force on a regular basis. If there is an issue with the potential of social economy and community enterprise in north Dublin, the Deputy can contact me and we can facilitate a further discussion on that.

Deputy Broughan also raised the issue of the costs of relocating the functions. There are no additional costs associated with the transfer of functions, and Deputy McGrath raised this point as well. The Forfás property function has been transferred to IDA Ireland, along with some shared services functions. Existing budgets in respect of these functions transferred to the IDA and there is no proposal to increase these budgets. There may be some costs associated with the relocation of INAB to the HSA, but these will be relatively small and will be met from within existing budgets.

I hope I have answered Deputy O'Brien's point about independent and critical analysis. We all agree that the commitment is there. It is important that the independence be maintained and that the body would have that ability to construct its own reports. There were also issues about unemployment and youth unemployment. I do not intend getting into a macroeconomic debate. There are other mechanisms for addressing those political points that were made. Points were also made about IDA regional development. Specific Deputies made points about their own constituencies. IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland are revising their regional strategies which will seek to overcome and address problems which may be hampering regional development. I know the IDA recently announced plans to provide offices and buildings in a number of regional locations in the coming years. It is fair to say IDA Ireland actively promotes centres throughout the country, but in my experience, if we look at those companies coming in now, particularly in the technology sector, they are often young companies born on the Internet and they seem to want to cluster in areas where there is already much activity, such as Dublin and larger urban conurbations like Cork and Limerick. They are not inclined to move outside those larger urban conurbations, so there is no doubt that this provides a challenge. Very often the client companies make the ultimate decision on where to locate, following site visits. It is important to recognise that as well. There is no doubt there is still a regional disparity and a challenge in respect of the growth in the eastern side of the country relative to other regional areas. That is something we are addressing through Action Plan for Jobs.

The implementation team tasked with overseeing the integration of Forfás into the Department has made considerable progress ahead of the legislation to dissolve Forfás in agreeing with the relevant agencies the most appropriate location for Forfás's non-policy functions. Once the legislation is enacted, we will be ready to commence Parts 2 to 5, inclusive, and section 39, all of which relate to the staff of Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland, Science Foundation Ireland and the NSAI, in advance of the dissolution of Forfás. More than 1,000 employees currently seconded from Forfás will become employees of their respective agency once these parts are commenced. Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland and Science Foundation Ireland will set up individual superannuation schemes for their employees who will leave the existing Forfás and legacy schemes to join these schemes, retaining their respective terms and conditions from their previous superannuation schemes. Therefore, there is no diminution of standards in that sense. We will also commence Part 7 at the same time, which provides for the transfer of the accreditation function and associated staff from Forfás to the HSA in advance of the dissolution date. These staff will join the HSA superannuation scheme, retaining their respective terms and conditions from their previous superannuation schemes.

Part 6, which provides for the dissolution of Forfás and the transfer of its functions to Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland or the Minister, as appropriate, as well as the remaining sections of Part 8, will be commenced on the dissolution date, which is to be decided.

Decisions have been taken with regard to the reformed structure of the Department once Forfás has been integrated and project teams are working on the practical aspects of the transfer of Forfás staff, records and ICT systems to the Department. We anticipate, therefore, that the dissolution of the agency, integration of its policy and research functions and transfer of approximately 60 staff will take place shortly after the commencement of the Parts relating to the various agencies.

I thank Deputies for their contributions on the Bill. I deliberately did not address issues raised that were not pertinent to the legislation. Deputies - I am guilty too in this regard - have a tendency to take advantage of Second Stage debates to introduce matters which are extraneous to the legislation being debated.

While the Bill is technical in nature, it is important legislation which will give effect to the decision to integrate the policy and research functions of Forfás in the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. It is a valuable part of the Department's contribution to the public sector reform plan. Combining the strengths of the Department and Forfás will help us in our efforts to be a world class enterprise Ministry and enhance the contribution the Department makes to economic recovery. Deputies share in this aspiration to create jobs and generate a sustainable economic recovery that will have a positive impact on society. Forfás, through its staff, will have a major role to play in this regard.

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