Arthur Spring (Kerry North-West Limerick, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I would like to make some comments on the Betting (Amendment) Bill 2013 that are informed by a different school of thought. I would like my suggestions to be considered. I have listened to many of the contributions that have been made this morning. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan spoke about the gambler, as opposed to the industry. Deputies Connaughton and Heydon spoke about the industry and the individuals.

I would like to highlight a couple of problems that relate to online gambling, as opposed to the form of gambling that takes place when those who have the funds to do so walk into a shop and place bets using cash from their pockets. Most of those who use the Internet to try to make a profit from gambling use credit cards. I believe the online gambling business will be forever a cash cow for those involved in it, especially in light of the levels of advertising and engagement associated with it. The number of people employed in this sector of the industry is minimal, when considered in the overall context, because it is not as labour-intensive as running a bookie's shop.

I welcome the efforts to gather taxation from anybody who is betting in this country. This was a big problem in the US, where some forms of gambling are prohibited in certain states but were being facilitated internationally through online services. It is fundamentally wrong that somebody can go online and begin a process of gambling using several accounts with various credit card companies. I have met people who have lost houses, businesses and farms as a result of gambling. I have met people from the Money Advice and Budgeting Service who have told me about the collapse of people's lives and families, largely due to gambling addiction. They were not betting what was in their pockets - they were gambling with money they did not have.

I ask the Minister and the Department to consider whether it would be appropriate to restrict online gambling to those using debit and laser cards, rather than merchant cards such as MasterCard and Visa. One should not be allowed to gamble online unless the money is in one's bank account to begin with. People should not be permitted to go into credit for the purposes of following this habit, which is particularly addictive during times of economic hardship. I would agree that the last thing the betting industry, which has many aspects, needs is a Minister for Finance who is a gambler, is completely addicted to gambling or is involved in gambling. People need to be able to do a risk assessment or adjustment.

I am prone to the odd bet. I like the idea of going into a betting shop, meeting people, watching television and placing the odd bet, probably along the lines of the teams I support. I come from a sporting family that follows football, hurling, golf, rugby and everything else that is going on. I have an interest in betting small amounts of money in an accumulator fashion, which means there can be high returns if it kicks off. Irish people enjoy betting and gambling as a means of having fun. I am vehemently opposed to the idea of people sitting at home at 2 a.m., 3 a.m. or 4 a.m. watching a race in the US - one can watch imaginary or electronically manufactured races on certain channels - and going online to use credit cards for the purposes of fulfilling their needs. It does not serve society well.

I agree with the Deputies who have argued that there are too many betting shops on certain streets. There is an adequate number that we should try to attain. I prefer to see small shops where the person who is running the floor and managing the place has an intimate relationship with the individual who goes in to place a bet. A person who is excessive in his or her gambling should be pulled aside in a socially conscious manner and told to deal with that problem.

Much of what other Deputies have said is accurate. One of my bigger problems with the online industry is that it closes the accounts of winning gamblers. The watchdogs need to be on top of this. I have been made aware that it is imperative for people to hedge their smaller shops if they become exposed. They sometimes use the online industry for these purposes. They close winning accounts as part of that process. Where is the fairness? Where is the ability of betting shops to compete with industries that close accounts? One cannot say to someone who walks into a betting shop to place a bet on a horse using a betting slip that his or her money is no good in the shop. By contrast, online bookmakers are watching people's accounts and closing them down.

Our approach to gambling should be socially conscious rather than taxation-orientated. I like the idea of more taxation being generated for the horse and greyhound racing industry. This will also affect football, hurling and everything else.

There is an imbalance in how jobs are created in this sector. On-street bookmakers' shops in small rural towns are losing out to the online industry. As we know, companies that have an online presence, such as Paddy Power, Betfair and Betdaq, are recruiting people in Dublin. The number of jobs in these online companies is far greater than the number of jobs in the on-street network, which is preferable from a societal perspective. I have a problem with the fact that this is another example of jobs being relocated to Dublin.

See this speech in context