Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 5:

In page 9, to delete lines 29 to 36, and in page 10, to delete lines 1 to 5 and substitute the following:

“(a) firstly, a PRSI contributions record sufficient to ensure eligibility for the full State Pension for every retired scheme member who has not attained this record themselves and an age-appropriate equivalent for those that are pre-retirement;”.

These amendments represent a different order of priorities than what the Minister has suggested in the event of a fund becoming insolvent. I am referring to single rather than double insolvency. The objective is to capture more equally what will happen in that event and to ensure it is not just existing pensioners who are protected, as happens, but also active members - those paying into the fund - and deferred members. They should all receive a more equal slice of the cake. We have suggested in the amendments that, at the very least, everybody have the missing PRSI contributions purchased for them by the fund to ensure every single person in the pension scheme would qualify for a State contributory pension. That is vital because it is worth about €12,000, the figure the Minister has in her own order of priorities. If that was done, at least everybody across the board would have a contributory pension. This is particularly urgent for those who are near retirement age and who, without this provision, could be paying into a pension fund that could collapse later, following which they would be left with nothing. That happens and has happened to some. At least, they would then be able to fall back on a State contributory pension.

I tried to get the transcript of the discussion when we discussed this issue on Committee Stage, but it is not available yet owing to the rushed nature of the Bill. As a result, I have not been able to check exactly what the Minister said in reply.

That is a pity. It is a poor legislative process when we cannot have time to put amendments together.

People signed up for these defined benefit packages and at the time many had a different PRSI stamp because they were going to have these guaranteed pensions. Now it is emerging that they do not have these guaranteed pensions and some people lack the required number of PRSI stamps, especially since there are changes to the way one qualifies for the State contributory pension which would guarantee all pensioners at least €12,000. If that is not done, many will end up dependent on the non-contributory pension and it will cost the State money one way or another. At least this way the contributions are being purchased by the funds. The 100% of benefits up to €12,000 for those currently in a scheme would mean that pensioners would have €12,000 and the State contributory pension; therefore, we are talking about a figure of nearly €24,000. It is not a gilt-edged pension like those some people have, but it is much better than the current state of affairs for some in receipt of pensions. One then goes back and forth between active members, deferred members at different ages and existing pensioners. The reason is to ensure those on the lower scale and the lowest pay during the years and who tend to be on the lowest pensions will have this guaranteed as much as possible as the fund is being distributed.

We talked earlier about trying to ensure the companies which were economically viable would live up to their responsibilities. I will not go over that issue again, but on Committee Stage I asked whether there was any move in Europe to establish the equivalent of a globalisation fund. Under such a scheme, in the event that a company was closing its operation in Ireland but was still active elsewhere in the European Union, it would have responsibility for the pension fund in Ireland. That would help to address some of the problems we mentioned on earlier amendments and also to ensure there was enough money in the pension fund of a collapsing defined benefit scheme to ensure distribution according to the criteria I have laid out.

There is urgency attaching to this issue, which is why we have not opposed the Bill or sought to delay its passage. We have the figures. There were 2,500 defined benefit pension schemes in previous years. It is now down to 800, which affects approximately 200,000 people. That is a large number.

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