Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I wish to speak briefly in support of what Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh said. The Minister has mentioned two pension reports that preceded the OECD's report. I understand the OECD's report is very specific in recommending that this change be made. The Minister has mentioned that there are differences of scale between the economy and the economies of the United States and the United Kingdom. That is true, but has she examined what is happening in other countries of comparable size? Would she like to comment on this?

The Minister has made the point that if legislation along the lines of that in the United Kingdom was introduced, substantial avoidance measures would be taken. I do not accept that as a valid argument. One might as well say we should get rid of capital gains tax or other taxes because people would indulge in elaborate schemes to avoid them. People have certainly tried to avoid the new pensions legislation in the United Kingdom, but the government there does what a government does in the case of tax avoidance measures - it brings forward anti-avoidance measures to close down such efforts.

The Minister has also made the point that people are being put at a competitive disadvantage. I argue that any company providing a defined benefit pension scheme, for whatever reason, perhaps as Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh said, to induce people with the requisite skills to join it, is at a competitive disadvantage because it has an obligation that companies that do not provide a defined benefit pension scheme do not have. Therefore, that argument goes out the door. I notice that the Minister has abandoned the argument about there being an immediate rush to close down defined benefit pension schemes because she is aware that we will conclude our discussion on this legislation today and that it will shortly be signed by the President. In any case, she could make the legislation effective from today.

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