Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Naughten for introducing this Bill. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, for attending the House for this debate. I am sorry to hear that the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, cannot be here because there is a Cabinet meeting. That is one of the drawbacks of the way we try to tackle a large volume of work and the mechanics of getting it done.

The Bill addresses events and happenings that have occurred. It meets a requirement and that is why it should be supported. It does not seek to provide all the answers to the full spectrum of problems that arise in cases of child sexual abuse and sexual abuse generally.

I wish to thank Deputies Robert Troy, Sandra McLellan, Finian McGrath, Terence Flanagan and Bernard Durkan for their contributions. This discussion has highlighted the realities of what it is like in the homes and on the streets of this country. The specific problem also involves child sex offenders loitering on streets or lurking in cars. As the recent report from the Rape Crisis Network shows, there is a wider context involving over 100,000 people in society who have experienced sexual abuse in their childhood. They were boys and girls who are now adults. The sexual abuse occurred within families.

The family provides education and experience for most people growing up, although there are children who have lost their parents or who are from broken homes. The family environment's capacity for raising children and providing example is under constant assault at the moment. People can see images on their television or computer screens, in DVDs and on mobile phone apps that are glamorised, sensationalised, sexualised and brutalised. As a result, there is massive confusion in society. Young people are living in families or other situations and are becoming intellectually and psychologically aware of what is going on around them. Yet they are faced with the temptations and curiosities of life when growing up and can arrive at situations whereby they make themselves more vulnerable than needs be, if they have not received good example in their education, whether from parents, teachers, sports coaches or games masters.

On the sad occasions where children are abused, they say it was after a period of grooming.

Society is groomed for certain outcomes so this is no surprise. In 1931, Aldous Huxley wrote a book entitled Brave New World. In some ways we only arrived there in the new millennium. Aldous Huxley said in Brave New Worldthat we stratify society. We do so nowadays. The powerful Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge educated people are the alphas and this debate is a little below them. Next in line across the universities of the world are those in third level education, the Gammas, Deltas and Epsilons. The Deltas and the Epsilons are kept happy in their society by their soma, which is their alcohol, tattoos, films and DVDs. Children, who are the defenceless in society, literally become the casualties of this type of society.

I welcome this Bill to deal with specific situations. Parents who are trying their best to keep their children safe are reasonably entitled to be able to make inquiries if outside the walls or structure of their families and extended families there are larger numbers of people who could make their children vulnerable or victims. On the way into the House today I listened to an interview between Miriam O'Callaghan and Dr. Marie Cassidy, the State pathologist, which was very interesting. Dr. Cassidy comes from a Scottish background, has an enormous amount of professional experience and is a mother of a now grown up family. She spoke during the interview of the spectrum of her experience as a mother educating her family and as a professional carrying out her work and how that work fitted into society's outcomes and events, which are sad, poignant and tragic. While Dr. Cassidy showed an understanding and compassion for the perpetrators of a murder, manslaughter and so on she did not exonerate them from what they did. With the exception of a few cases, nobody gets out of bed with the intention of killing another person, be it manslaughter or murder. Yet, it happens by a confluence of events.

It is up to us as legislators to create a framework for society that encourages good example and behaviour and dampens down or tries to set aside, disperse and evaporate the elements of living that do not help people to engage meaningfully in their work, to enjoy their lives meaningfully, to holiday meaningfully and to help one another meaningfully. This is not a woolly one-sided conversation. I am throwing up ideas. The Bill introduced by Deputy Naughten is the nuts and bolts of doing something. As stated by Sarah Payne's mother, if this saves the life of one child, it is good. The Government's response should not be that it has a better solution and what it is proposing is the first chapter of a wider book to come in several months' time. We have heard that before, including in 2009 when it was said that the wheels were beginning to turn in the direction of where we are today. Accept the Bill and if further proposals come forth in seven or eight months' time this can be subsumed into them. If the Bill requires amendment on Committee Stage we can do that. I hope this is the manner in which issues will be addressed in the future.

After two and a half years as a Member of the Dáil I have only begun to understand that the choreography here is a difficult one. It is dated. When Acting Chairman yesterday during Question Time, I noted that the first sentence of a response from the Minister was one and a half lines long and contained 20 plus words and 37 syllables. The second sentence was three and a half lines long, with 57 words and 95 syllables. If one analyses that in terms of communication it may be said there is a fog index, often spoken about by journalists and so on, which is the point at which one is losing one's audience or reader because of too much information. It is like how to deconstruct a minestrone message. To have 95 syllables in one sentence as the opening of five pages of a reply to a question, is not doing business.

With respect, the Minister of State's five-page Second Stage contribution is not a crisp and effective way to respond to a four-page Bill. It is clumsy. I hope that rather than engage in political point scoring, positioning and posturing the Government will run with this Bill and allow it progress to Committee Stage, thus showing a bit of get up and go. I agree that the Bill requires some tightening up but, basically, it is sound, fair and reasonable. Had it been introduced earlier it would have prevented a couple of the situations that occurred, which would have been good. This still does not exonerate the 166 Members of this House from thinking about society in terms of whether there is confusion and if we are accommodating that confusion. When something happens, we express horror and throw our eyes to heaven. I am speaking not about crime, which is defined against law measurement metrics, but behaviour. Defining behaviour is a little like trying to lift mercury with a fork. Behaviour around our cities is not nice. I do not enjoying coming into town, I avoid it.

One can talk at length about civil liberties and individual liberalism and so on. It is not a good idea. I did not know I was going to be born on 25 August 1951. It was a gift. Each subsequent day is a gift until time runs out and the petals fall off or an accident occurs, which is in the lap of the gods. In the meantime, we are part of society. Generally speaking, all of us here are lucky. However, nobody escapes the bruises, thorns and thistles of life. Everybody has their cross to carry at some stage. It is only a matter of when. In the meantime we should be there for each other in the institutions and frameworks we create to make what will be a difficult life a little more tolerable and sweet. I ask all Members, in particular those on the Government side, to be aware of this. I ask also that the Government not posture or engage in point scoring and take on board and run with this Bill. It is a gift. It is gracious, encouraging and motivating, which is what this country needs now.

Sarah's law is not a statutory law, it is an operational law. Just as water rises at its own level, it is not a statutory law but it is a fact. Sarah's law works. I ask that the Government give it a go. If there is anything we can do to tone down the gratuitous availability of sexualisation across all areas, including imagery and programmes such as "Love/Hate", we must do it. I could not bring myself to watch "Love/Hate". I know that war is ugly, that limbs are blown off and families are ruined. I do not need to see the close-up graphics.

One also has abusive language. If we all put 10 cent in a coin box every time we used the "F-word", we would soon become aware of what effect our words and gestures have. We need to organise the framework of laws and life. We should not be afraid to say there is too much stuff on television or on DVDs that is not necessary. It is a case of setting an example. How does one expect 12 year old children with hormones bouncing around-----

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