Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I certainly agree with Deputy Adams on one point, which is that for more than 50 years, the political process failed to deal with report after report regarding the potential of Seanad Éireann or its reformation. I examined this issue myself and it is impossible to reform a system that would still be discriminatory and minority-based and still would not involve people in the manner in which this House operates. It is not a situation in which one would seek to have some sort of subset of Dáil Éireann set up in which everyone, including those abroad, would have some measure of votes. Consequently, the question posed is a straight question as to whether one wishes to keep it or to abolish it. I hope people answer that question strongly on the abolition side.

I have answered Deputy Adams previously on the reason this matter did not go before the Constitutional Convention. The Constitutional Convention was part of the programme for Government, as agreed by the two parties in government, to engage with citizens in an analysis of various issues relating to Bunreacht na hÉireann with the intention that the Constitutional Convention, which has worked well in a thoroughly engaging and comprehensive fashion, would make known its views on a range of issues for consideration by the Government. In the case of the abolition of the Seanad, however, the Government already was clear as to what it wished to do. The Government made a decision and an agreement as part of the programme to put this question to the people. Consequently, from a Government point of view, it was not necessary to have an engagement with the Constitutional Convention for its consideration because a decision already had been made in this regard.

As I often have pointed out, a five year period is relatively very short for a Government that has an entire programme to implement, given the unprecedented scale of economic deprivation and calamity that afflicted us. Deputy Adams mentioned the conduct of the campaign and officials working on papers, and one should be clear that the small unit in the protocol section of the Department of the Taoiseach, three of them, was charged with the production and work on the proposal to give effect to the abolition of the Seanad. This is normal for any Minister or any Department and this is what happens. When such a proposal is worked up, it is sent off to the Parliamentary Counsel and the legislation is drafted on that basis. The Government is not running a campaign here because this case was taken to the court arising from the children's referendum and the Government clearly obliged immediately in respect of the findings of the court. Consequently, there is no Government campaign in respect of the abolition of the Seanad although the parties in government and members of those parties obviously do campaign. In that sense, there is not a formal Government campaign and it does not apply. The Government abides fully by the decisions of the court arising from the children's referendum.

As I indicated in response to Deputy Martin, the volume of work involved for the very small unit in the Department of the Taoiseach which worked on the proposal to give effect to the abolition of the Seanad, that is, on the question being asked, has diminished greatly because there is no further engagement from that perspective. Consequently, I reiterate there is no Government campaign and, therefore, there is no requirement for legal advice in respect of any of that. It does not apply. The parties in government run their own campaigns nationwide and it is perfectly normal for officials in whatever Department is sponsoring legislation to work on the preparation of a proposal to be put in a referendum.

I also inform Deputy Adams that all the officials involved were notified by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government and, to be clear in this regard, the legal advice from the Office of the Attorney General in respect of the application of the principles of the McKenna judgment applies here. During the referendum, the Government has a right and a duty to give information to clarify situations or to give explanations and deal with unforeseen matters in emergencies. The Government is not entitled to expend public moneys for the purpose of promoting a campaign for a particular outcome. The McKenna case concerned money specifically voted to the Government for the referendum campaign. Neither the McKenna decision nor any other decision determines that departmental resources may not be used by a Minister in a referendum campaign. It still is permissible for the Civil Service, in support of the Government's policy and leadership role, to continue to provide information and material to Ministers in the form of speeches or reports of briefing material, including during the referendum campaign itself. Were I to attend a public meeting dealing with a referendum that had been organised by my own party, I would not have any material for that supplied to me by the people working in the Department because it is not a departmental meeting.

Under the instruction it received, the Civil Service can never go beyond its normal activities so as to ensure it never promotes, directly or indirectly, a particular outcome in a referendum or indulges in what might be termed partisan propaganda. The letter from the Department of the Taoiseach on 31 July is also very clear that on no account can civil servants provide support for or participate in party political events connected to the referendum campaign, nor should statements made at party or campaign events be referred to on Government websites. Government resources which are normally available to Ministers, such as Government websites, can refer to statements made by members of the Government in their ministerial capacity, but any passages in statements that advocate a "Yes" vote, for example, should be and must be redacted. That is consistent with the practice in previous referenda.

The principal officer and the two persons working there do their job in respect of the normal promotion of the proposal by the sponsoring Department and me as the sponsoring Minister in this case. That goes to the Parliamentary Counsel, who drafts the legislation. I wish to be perfectly clear about that.

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