Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am pleased to be able to speak on the Child and Family Agency Bill. I have welcomed the Minister since her appointment to her job and I have wished her well.

Up to 4,000 staff will be transferred to the new child and family agency which is being established following the long-standing criticism of the handling of child protection and social services by the HSE. The new child and family agency will be one of the largest public bodies in the State. It will require a major cultural shift. It will have an estimated budget of €500 million. The new agency has been formed as an alternative to the old HSE child and family services area. It is envisaged that by creating an independent agency, children's rights, child protection, child welfare and family support would be given additional priority and resources from within the vastness of the old HSE structures.

Child protection and children's rights were not prioritised previously, a fact admitted by Brendan Drumm when he was departing as chief executive of that organisation. However, the creation of the new agency should be done carefully and strategically. There is a risk that the practices and culture of the HSE could transfer to the new agency, especially given that almost all of the staff who will be working in the new agency are currently working within the HSE. That is a serious concern because there are some appalling practices and poor management issues within the HSE. Obviously, it is too big and it is literally out of control and has been for many years. I stood on the other side of the floor as a backbencher for many years begging the Taoiseach of the day and the then Minister, Ms Harney, to disband the HSE because it was dysfunctional as far as I was concerned.

We have heard all manner of promises from the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, to the effect that he would but he has not done so. He said he would. I believe he has set up a new board and he has made an interesting choice as chief executive, Mr. Tony O'Brien, following a Bill passed last week. We know his chequered history, where he came from, the views he held and the organisations he chaired. One of these has been under investigation for the past 18 months. There has been an abject failure by the Department to bring that investigation to fruition. It related to family planning institutions giving out dangerous, highly illegal and, in my view, criminal information to the most vulnerable people. There has been no investigation. First, we were told there would be an investigation. Then, when I asked the Tánaiste about it in the House two weeks ago, it was demoted to an audit. I suppose now that they have got what they wanted, they will abandon it altogether and that is where it will be left.

Some would say these child care professionals are coming from an organisation where the main focus has been on responding to emergencies and emerging scandals. That is not an environment conducive to a focus on children's rights. For these professionals the change is an opportunity to work in an organisation that is true to the ethos of how they were trained and is in line with international best practice. The reality is that front-line social care workers care deeply about the safety and outcomes for our children. Staffing has been reduced by up to 20% and yet they continue to fight to keep Irish children safe. I salute the many social workers and child care professionals who work tirelessly and go above and beyond the call of duty, but the system is simply not functional. Some have expressed concern that key professionals such as child psychologists and public health nurses may not end up transferring to the agency. Government sources have said that discussions are ongoing with some of these groupings.

I have met some of these groupings and staff. They have major concerns about the services they have to try to deal with. If these staff are transferred then these services will be rendered inoperable. That is the major concern they have. I hope that it will be sorted out because these things seem to happen and then the Minister tries to line up the situation afterwards but it is difficult to do it then.

Documents obtained by TheIrish Times show that there has been serious internal opposition within the health service to the proposed changes as they apply to clinical psychologists. We all know that and it is on the record. I hope the Minister is aware of it and is dealing with it. I hope the Minister will find it easier to deal with her colleague than the former Minister of State did with her senior Minister. Critics have said that a failure to bring key professionals under the umbrella of the agency could lead to the same weakness that characterised the handling by the HSE of child protection issues. That weakness is well documented with many flaws.

The former Barnardos director of advocacy, Norah Gibbons, has been appointed as the first chairwoman of the board of the new child and family agency. I believe that being a boss in Barnardos does not give one the right to be chairperson of one of these organisations. We know who the chief executive of Barnardos was, a certain Mr. Finlay. When he was unable to go for the role of President he fell back into this job there. He was on radio in RTE for approximately two years as a columnist every evening using air time to promote himself for the presidency. He was supposed to be in charge of Barnardos. I have questions over the likes of the carry-on in Barnardos and its behaviour in the recent children's rights referendum as well. Ms Gibbons served as a member of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, chaired the Roscommon child care inquiry and co-chaired the independent child death review group. I do not know anything about the lady but all that should give her ample experience and example to deal with serious situations.

The creation of the new agency needs to be done carefully and strategically. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs has acknowledged that there are 30,000 referrals to the child and family services every year. There are 1,500 cases of abuse and neglect confirmed every year as well. There are vulnerable children in cases where there is alcohol and drug addiction in families. There are young children in day care centres who are not getting enough food. We have seen some of that.

I have been involved with several crèches in south Tipperary and I am chairperson of one of them. The vast majority of them are good. It was said on a programme by a Member of one of the Government parties, Deputy Durkan, that the workers did not have the vocation anymore. I do not know what way he described it but the vast majority of them have indeed. There will be abuses but there have been checks recently. I have seen that and I am pleased they have taken place. In any event, the people I am talking about are committed.

Do we need a totally new agency? Will it be another quango? I know we have a new Minister and I am pleased about that, but must we have another agency with a vast budget and 4,000 staff? Will we be able to siphon the staff from the HSE? Will they be let go? Will it become another quango that the Minister will be unable to control? I certainly hope not, because I am sick and tired of quangos throughout the country, many of which are self-appointed. The Government promised that it would get rid of them and instead it has increased them and they are not accountable to anyone. I accept the bona fides of the Minister and I know she will do her best, but some of these people become more powerful than the quango that they act for.

We cannot forget the many foster families who, long before child agencies were set up in the HSE, were taking in children. We cannot forget the many convents and other groups. We are dealing with Magdalen laundries and so on now. However, we cannot forget the good work done by all of the sisters and brothers in looking after children. We can never say that it is totally the fault of the convents or the orders. The State also has a major responsibility, as do the families who put these people in the laundries as young children.

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