Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I support these amendments, in particular those that relate to fatal foetal abnormality. I must admit that until recently I did not appreciate the extent of this issue nor that so many women and couples were affected by it. In recent months, however, I and many others have learned a great deal about this condition. We have heard the stories of couples who received these awful diagnoses for the children they were expecting, who were very much wanted. We are not talking about a situation where the unborn is ill but rather where the unborn has a condition that is not compatible with life outside the womb. It is a very definite and clear diagnosis. I understand that the numbers of people affected are close to 1,500 per year. A heartrending presentation was made to Members of the Houses some weeks ago, at which there was a very good attendance. Everybody in the room was very much struck by the stories we heard from the dozen or so women and some of their partners who were present.

They told those harrowing stories, about which others have spoken, of hearing the awful news and how that affected them. They then had to make a decision about how to proceed in view of the fact that if they chose an early delivery of a child they knew would not survive outside the womb, the only way to do that was to travel to the UK. They told of all the heartbreak that entailed and the awful stories of smuggling back the remains or, as Deputy Daly said, waiting for delivery of the ashes. It really is quite scandalous that we treat Irish women and their partners like that in those very difficult circumstances.

If Deputy Healy-Rae is free some time he might actually find out something about this condition. It is a pity he was not in attendance when the rest of us heard the stories. If he had been, he would have realised that his depiction was quite inaccurate and that maybe he should learn something about the condition. Obviously it is an awful decision for the woman and her partner to have to make and it is devastating, life-altering news for them. It is particularly difficult where there are other children in the family. That is another major consideration: how could one possibly go ahead with a pregnancy, with all that entails for the other young children in the family, only for the child to be born and then die more or less immediately? There are many issues to weigh up in making that difficult decision. It is a matter of shame that the exercise of choice is not available for couples in those circumstances. That needs to be dealt with. There is very strong support on both sides of the House for doing so. Several proposals have been put forward tonight for ways to address the issue. I note the legal advice that is being relayed to us, but where we are talking about the right to life of the unborn, the situation is entirely different when the unborn is not capable of life outside the womb. Does the right to life exist in those circumstances? It strikes me as a definitional issue. I appeal to the Ministers to try to exhaust all possibilities under the Constitution. It is not good enough to come back and say that it is not possible under the Constitution. That is a matter of particular concern, given the recent statements of the Minister for Health and the Tánaiste to the effect that the Government will not revisit the issue of termination. I do not think that is good enough. The Minister needs to come forward with a response that addresses the problem faced by approximately 1,500 people every year. I appeal strongly to him to do that. Whatever the Government parties may wish for in terms of closing off this issue, it is quite clear that is not going to happen. It is not going to be possible because there are too many outstanding issues, including the situation we are talking about now and the issues I raised earlier, the need to revisit the constitutional provision with regard to gestational limits, and other issues that arise. There is a very strong possibility of a legal challenge.

While for political reasons people may wish to put this issue to bed and be done with it, as it were - at least, those are very much the vibes coming from Government - I do not think that is going to be possible. The Government needs to respond to these very real people who are faced with very real and traumatic situations that do occur. I strongly urge the Government to support or accept the amendments before us or, at the very least, to hold out a prospect of resolving this issue within a reasonable time.

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