Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

-----or the right to comment on issues in whatever form we may and in accordance with Standing Orders.

I asked the Taoiseach Question No. 9, to which I would like a specific and straight answer. It should not be difficult because I think he half answered it. I asked the Taoiseach to circulate his Department's memorandums and minutes of meetings held in regard to the forthcoming Seanad referendum and if he would make a statement on the matter. I would appreciate a categoric "Yes" or "No" answer to that question. The Taoiseach seemed to indicate first of all that there were no memorandums or minutes. I am not worried about the content or the purpose of them but I simply believe they should be circulated to help in the overall public debate on the proposal to abolish the Seanad.

My position prior to the general election was clear that we would favour the abolition of the Seanad only in the context of deep and meaningful reform to the electoral system, to the Dáil itself and to the method of appointing persons to the Executive. It would be a very radical programme of reform because I think the crisis we have experienced demands that.

The Taoiseach has dramatically changed his position. In the famous speech in the Glenties, he detailed considerable reform which he believed in then. Then there was the famous dinner at which he abruptly turned, which he was entitled to do, and came forward with the proposal to abolish the Seanad.

We should also record the fact there have been many very good contributions in the Seanad. People did not only make colourful contributions which I think was a bit of a put down to some very good, sustained and significant contributions people from all political backgrounds made in the context of analysing legislation and making important statements on issues of public importance. That must be acknowledged.

The problem is we are abolishing urban councils in their entirety. That is one tier of democracy at a local level which is being abolished. I passionately believe in town councils. In towns throughout the country, I have seen the work of small town councils, which fundamentally represent people coming together in their communities to make a difference. We are getting rid of that but are dressing it up by saying we are reducing the number of councillors. We are increasing the number of councillors in Dublin by, I think, 60, which is an extraordinary number. The reasons are electoral, that is, to keep the Labour Party seats on those councils.

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