Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent) | Oireachtas source

First, I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to speak on this new and important legislation, the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013. I spoke on this issue on 7 December 2012, when I laid out clearly my position on the abortion issue. Today, I intend to speak specifically on this Bill and of course I have major concerns about the legislation before the House. I also support the request to have an open and free vote, as many Members have different views on the life and health issues of the mother and baby. I also believe Members must legislate for the X case and will lay out clearly my position on this matter. My agenda always will be to try to save all human life, while always putting the life and health of the mother first. It never is an easy decision and I trust the expertise and guidance of the medical personnel. The pregnant mother and the medical expert always should be the final arbitrators in such crisis situations. Let us stick to the best medical practice for all patients and it is important when this is stated in the legislation.

However, it is appropriate and fair to be open and honest in this debate and to deal specifically with the complex situation. I always have considered myself to be pro-life in all aspects of my beliefs and political philosophy.

I do not know anyone in this House who is anti-life, and we all want to do our best to save lives. We all need to do our best to save mothers, and we all want to do our best to save young babies and young children. That is my view, and I believe it is the view of most Members of the Dáil and Seanad. However, life is complex, and at times it is not fair and can be very difficult. There are times when extremely difficult choices have to be made. Many of us have had those difficult times in our own personal lives through miscarriages and threatened miscarriages or having a baby with a disability. They have all touched our families, but at all times life is at the top of our agenda. That is the reason I disagree with many of my colleagues that the issue of abortion is complex.

The bottom line for me is as follows. I would do anything to protect and safeguard the lives of any woman or young teenager in any difficult pregnancy situation, as most parents and family members would do. There can be no talks about talks when it comes to one's personal and family's health situation. Most medical people would do that, and if a termination is necessary to save the life of a young woman, I would agree with doing that. That is the key point in this debate.

The main purpose of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 is to restate the general prohibition on abortion in Ireland while regulating access to lawful termination of pregnancy in accordance with the X case and the judgment of the European Court of Human Rights in the A, B and C v.Ireland case. Its purpose is to confer procedural rights on a woman who believes she has a life-threatening condition in order that she can have certainty as to whether she requires this treatment. That is what the legislation, and this debate, is about.

My personal position is clear on issues of women's health, rape and incest. Termination should be allowed after the best medical advice involving the people directly affected by it. I know many people who have different views on abortion, but they have to examine these issues as well.

There is also the issue of personal conscience and personal choice, something the political parties should respect. People with different moral and ethical views in very difficult situations should be allowed to have a free vote. People should not be whipped into making a decision with which in their conscience they disagree. Many Ministers and Ministers of State have said that in the past, and I strongly support that position. This is a very private, personal, moral and ethical issue and they should be allowed to have a free vote, even though I disagree with many of them. Despite that free vote, I believe most people will move towards the consensus that there is a middle ground in this debate.

As things stand, the 1992 X case judgment remains the basis of abortion law. Hospitals can and do carry out terminations where there is a risk to the life of the mother. Suicide is currently accepted as a risk. In the past 20 years, the sky has not fallen in with women claiming suicide as grounds for abortion, which proves that women are more responsible than many have portrayed them. It is argued that the Government should formalise this situation, and that would be my personal position. I will deal with this later in my contribution.

In recent weeks, the media have repeatedly mentioned the abortion lobby. Those who want the Government to legislate for the judgments in the X case and the A, B and C v.Ireland case are not part of that agenda. They are the majority of people in this country and have been so since 1992. In other words, there is a middle ground in this debate that is often excluded. That is important.

The suicide issue is very important and it is at the heart of the problem. If suicide is excluded, other medical emergencies become easier to legislate for and control to some extent. However, any mental health advocate knows that suicide can and does form a very real risk during pregnancies. To disallow suicide could make for stronger legislation, but it could also lead to tragic circumstances where women who are victims of particularly traumatic experiences are left without the support they need and have a life-saving option taken away.

I acknowledge that my colleagues across all parties in the Dáil have engaged in a commonsense and unemotional debate, and I welcome that. We also had the hearings at the Joint Committee on Health and Children, which I thought were fair and balanced. We have had a decent debate and an open discussion, and all views are on the record.

I refer to section 9 of the legislation.

It is important to consider this section in detail. It deals with a risk to the life of the pregnant woman from suicide. Section 9(1) states that termination of pregnancy shall be lawful in situations where the procedure is carried out by an obstetrician or gynaecologist in an appropriate institution and where three medical practitioners registered on the specialist division of the Medical Council register have jointly certified that in their reasonable opinion there is a real and substantial risk to the life of a pregnant woman arising from suicide that can only be averted by that medical procedure. Many different views have been expressed in respect of this section during recent weeks. I received correspondence from various individuals who are very involved with their churches. This is not a simple matter for the different churches. For example, there are different views within the Catholic, Jewish and Protestant faiths and among those who are non-believers. We must, therefore, move away from any kind of sectarian context when discussing this matter. People, organisations and political parties and groupings - the Independents, Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, etc. - have different views. That is the complex reality of life, particularly in the context of examining matters of this nature.

I referred earlier to rape and incest, which are not contemplated within the legislation. In addition to these matters, I am also concerned about that which relates to fatal foetal abnormalities and which is also excluded from the legislation. I will wait to see how the Government and the other mainstream parties react to this situation. People are genuinely concerned with regard to women who are in crisis situations where there is no hope whatsoever of maintaining life. Those women are being crucified and tortured in a very negative way. Such women have communicated with Members in recent weeks. We must ensure that they are given a voice and that their concerns are heard.

When debating this issue, it is important to consider carefully all the different angles. We heard from the expert group, which provided us with excellent information, and also from the Joint Committee on Health and Children. The expert group provide a number of options and following this debate - when everyone will have had time to express their views and have them listened to - it will be time for us, as legislators, to deal with the matter. I continue to lean towards option 4 as put forward in the report of the expert group. We need legislation and strong regulations to provide clarity for the citizens of this State and the medical profession and in order to do our best to save the lives of mothers and children. That is my position and it is important that I should outline it. We must ensure that the relevant amendments to the legislation will be forthcoming. I have listened to the wider debate on this issue and I have met many people directly affected by its subject matter. I have also considered the various options outlined in the expert group's report. At present, I am minded to support the option of a combination of legislation and regulation in order to regulate lawful access to the termination of pregnancy in Ireland in accordance with the X case, the European Convention on Human Rights and the judgment handed down in the A, B and C v. Ireland case.

I referred earlier that we must listen to the opinions of members of the medical profession, a number of whom appeared before the Joint Committee on Health and Children. When she came before the committee, Dr. Rhona Mahony, Master of the National Maternity Hospital, stated:

It is my opinion that the current framework under which medical practitioners operate in Ireland is not satisfactory and further clarification and guidance is required in this regard ... In the context of the rare circumstance where there is real risk to a pregnant woman's life as a result of pregnancy and prior to foetal viability the concept of equal right to life becomes a contradictory concept. In these situations medical judgement must be made in good faith to save the life of the woman. If she dies, so will her foetus.

These are important points to note and they have arisen during the debate on the legislation. Dr. Mahony also stated, "there must be sufficient flexibility in law and regulation to support medical judgment and in this regard, the protection in law of women and medical practitioners is of crucial importance".

Finally, she said in her submission that society may be reassured that clinicians in Ireland will continue to work tirelessly to preserve life in all circumstances. That was one of the submissions that came to the Joint Committee on Health and Children. We should listen to all views and all strands in respect of this legislation. While I will await the final amendments to the legislation, at the moment I will probably support the legislation because we have to act and we have to provide legal certainty and legal clarity, and I think it is important that we do this.

It is important in this debate that we respect all views and that, after we make a democratic decision in the House, whether the vote is tomorrow or the next day, all views are listened to and everyone is given a chance to speak. I emphasise I would support the dissenters because I am usually the dissenting voice, but in this particular case I will support the legislation.

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