Dara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the opportunity to contribute on this debate. It is important that people acknowledge that we are undergoing significant reforms.

If the people vote to abolish the Seanad, Ireland will move to the position adopted by the great majority of countries, particularly small countries. Only one country in the OECD has a bicameral or double-chamber system. Deputy McGrath mentioned the cost of the Seanad. I am not one to argue that the strongest argument for abolition is cost but, for every one of the young people in the Visitors' Gallery, as for every one of us in the State, the Seanad costs €400. That is not a significant amount of money but it is €400 for an institution for which, unless one is an elected person or, in very narrow circumstances, if one is a graduate, one has no vote. We need to have a local authority to which people can vote to elect councillors - not town or county councillors as they are now, but politicians who will work for them at a local level through their local authorities. People need to be able to vote for an elected government and have the opportunity, at subsequent general elections, to recall that government. What has been missed somewhat is that since the 1970s we have had a third layer of elections, for the European Parliament, and we have seen a significant increase in the power and role of that Parliament.

There has been discussion about the role of the Seanad in oversight and about what Senators missed and did not miss. In reality, Senators have no power of veto. Even if, on the night of the bank guarantee, they had questioned the decisions made, they had no power to stop anything that was happening, whether they determined it to be right or wrong. It is curious to hear what some of the Independent Deputies, in particular, have to say. We have a good sense of why Fianna Fáil is supporting the retention of the Seanad. In effect, de Valera established it to be a powerless institution that would allow a significant political input into party membership, and traditionally it has indeed benefited Fianna Fáil in the main, as well as Fine Gael. The Taoiseach broke that mould after the last general election by appointing Independent Senators. If the Seanad remains, there is nothing to stop any subsequent Taoiseach from reverting to the bad old way of appointing whomsoever they like to that House. The reality is that the Seanad does not have any power. The reformists, particularly the Independents, by supporting the Seanad, appear to give no regard to the fact that apart from on the university panels, Independent Members have never been elected to that House. It is this House that sees Independent Members have a voice through our single universal suffrage system. It is surprising, therefore, to see the Independents going down that road.

Today one of the Independent Deputies had a list in his reform package which, on my count, is the sixth separate list of reform proposals I have heard, and I am certain there will be more. The truth is that we must reform the Dáil and the local authorities and must continue to get more from the European Parliament. Having a fourth layer in the Seanad serves absolutely no purpose. Some Senators do very good work and I hope many of them will run for the Dáil. I have no doubt many will be elected to this House, as has been the case before now.

I would like to see further development of local government reform. We should have directly elected mayors, who would replace county managers. The mergers of councils in Waterford and Limerick is welcome and I believe the same should be extended to Cork.

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