Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent) | Oireachtas source

It would be difficult to argue for the retention of the Seanad as we know it. It is not representative of the people or the workplace. If it was a low-cost second chamber that represented the different sections of society, it could be of some value. If we were to tolerate any reform, the Seanad should consist of people with no links to groupings or parties. Perhaps it could be a check on the Dáil.

This will not happen. The Government has no more of an appetite for change than the previous Government had. The changes to the Dáil and local government since I have become a Deputy have been almost irrelevant. Given the fact that we have one of the most centralised governments in the developed world, the need for strong local government is great. Unfortunately, the situation is getting worse. I would like the people to have a say in how their communities are organised. The people they elect to local government should be able to make decisions and be answerable to them. Moneys raised at a local level should be spent locally so that people might see where their money goes. However, these developments are a while away.

Given the fact the Seanad will not be reformed in any serious way, it should be abolished. If this or the next Government gets around to introducing real local government, it could also cut the number of Deputies. I would like to see it cut to 100. A drop from 166 would not impact on the manner in which the country is run negatively.

There has been much discussion of democracy and watering it down. This is rich, coming as it does from certain people. One is a former Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell, who has criticised the plans to abolish the Seanad as the destruction of our democracy. While he was Minister, he threatened the same democracy through his efforts to discredit Frank Connolly and the organisation the latter represented, the Centre for Public Inquiry, an institution founded to investigate matters of public importance in political, public and corporate life. Mr. McDowell made sure to put an end to it for being far too democratic for us.

It is a bit rich that many Deputies, including members of the Technical Group, are prepared to sacrifice any notion of democracy to ensure their re-elections. That giving Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan or me speaking time is not considered a great move for democracy seems to be a reinvention of the notion. They believe that doing so would jeopardise their chances of getting re-elected. In their view, the majority ruling on who is fit to speak makes more sense than allowing everyone speaking time. This is so nauseating that I want to run out of the place.

I will conclude with a quote from Fintan O'Toole on the dilemma facing the people. He wrote: "do you want to give the most centralised government in the developed world even more unaccountable power or would you rather keep paying your scarce money to keep a bunch of failed politicians in the game? The sane answer is not yes or no – it is no and no."

I do not know whether people realise it, but Senator Norris, for whom I have great respect, is not feeling great and is in hospital. I wish him well.

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