Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

In the first instance I thank all colleagues who contributed to the debate. We appreciate the points made. I also put on record my thanks and that of the Government to the extraordinary work of the Labour Relations Commission, Mr. Mulvey and his team for the work in the past five or six months. I also thank our own officials for their extraordinary input on behalf of the Department and the Government in bringing this matter to a conclusion.

This country has gone through an enormous adjustment process somewhere in the region of €25 billion, achieved by way of tax increases and expenditure cuts since the beginning of the crisis. We are 85% of the way there and the Minister, Deputy Howlin, has repeatedly stated on behalf of the Government that it is not unreasonable in circumstances where approximately 38% of all Government expenditure relates to public sector pay and pensions that between now and 2015 a third of the adjustment should come by way of proposed new efficiencies in order to get the country back to a manageable deficit. That is where we obtained the €1 billion figure for an annualised saving by 2015. That is not an unreasonable position for the Government as an employer to take in circumstances where the deficit figure is still as difficult as it is.

It is also right and proper that there has been extraordinary buy-in by the public servants of this country. They have been caught in an extraordinary storm which at one level saw take-home pay diminish in recent years because of this crisis but at another level the demand for services - in the likes of education, health and elsewhere - has exponentially increased. Much more work is being done by a smaller group of people because we have reduced numbers in the public service from a maximum of 320,000 to just under 290,000 today. This "perfect storm" in which Ireland has been caught is the context. If we can achieve our aim with a managed process - albeit a new agreement where the Government effectively comes into a collective arrangement with each separate union or group of unions - that is all the better.

There was an allegation in the debate that the Minister, Deputy Howlin, is in some ways bullying unions by having this legislation in place. It is far from it. We gave a commitment as a Government that whatever agreement was achieved would apply from July of this year to July 2016.

This is the three year period about which we speak. The only way in which these changes must be made is through the financial emergency measures in the public interest legislation which was introduced by the previous Administration as a necessary emergency measure to deal with the financial crisis. There is no bullying in having the legislation running parallel to the 1 July deadline for when these changes must happen and the negotiations. We refute and reject this.

Deputy Fleming and others raised the issue of the reducing headcount and there was criticism of the ongoing fall in numbers and of the burden this is placing on the remaining staff. I recognise it places extraordinary pressure on the remaining staff but we must do things differently. A great benefit of the Haddington Road agreement is the change in the average number of hours people work. Approximately 18 million additional hours will be obtained by the agreement which, if added up, are worth approximately 10,000 full-time equivalents. If people can work longer in a circumstance of managing the adjustments, we will be able to do much more with the existing service. This is an example of the new efficiencies which will flow from the agreement.

I refute Deputy McDonald's claim that an increase in working hours is the same as a pay cut. On the contrary, it is only through the negotiated increase in working hours for the majority of public servants, to 37 or 39 hours as appropriate, that we are able to avoid wider and deeper pay cuts for public servants. The boost in productivity which the additional hours will bring to our public services will be good for everyone in the country. The additional 18 million hours on an annualised basis obtained by the agreement are an example of what we can do by way of an agreement.

On a side note, I was startled to hear Deputy Finian McGrath claim that €65,000 is not a large salary in Ireland today. On the contrary, it amounts to twice the average industrial wage in Ireland. It is a fair level at which to apply pay reductions starting at 5.5% and increasing progressively but proportionately to 10% at the highest levels of pay in the public service. In contrast, Deputy Ó Cuív was dismissive of the amount of the pay cut at this level. I find this difficult to accept from a member of a Government in which the then Taoiseach was paid a salary of €310,000.

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