Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The Acting Chairman may share the same envy. Deputy Shane Ross's constituents trust him because of his ability to query individuals and issues in other fora apart from the Oireachtas. If his constituents trust him to perform that role well, why should we not allow such a role to be performed with proper functions and capacities by the Oireachtas? Why should we not allow that role to be performed with the support most other parliaments have available to them? Why should we not allow the Deputy or any other Member to have the ability to inquire into matters on behalf of the people in the way most other parliaments can? One of the reasons there might be a reluctance to do this, which was touched on by him, is the difficulty with politicians making judgments about other politicians. That happens every day of the week in the House during Leaders' Questions and ministerial Question Time, during which politicians form judgments about other politicians on how they discharge their duties in comparison to what happened in the past. If it is appropriate for this to happen in the House during the normal cut and thrust of political debate, why does the Deputy say it is not appropriate for it to happen effectively with legislative underpinning in other branches of the Oireachtas?

The counter charge to that, which I have heard and which Deputy Ross outlined, is that there may be the temptation to grandstand or for political gamesmanship. That temptation could be there but what this Bill will change is the consequences of that kind of behaviour. It will ensure that if members of a committee make statements which cannot be backed up by facts, which are gained in that committee, they will face the consequences of that action. We should give ourselves the capacity to see if we can discharge this function, which is what I believe this Bill will do, rather than assume we cannot because of the political culture. Surely the best way to change a political culture or the levels of commentary here is by giving the Oireachtas the ability to do this job properly, which every other parliament has, and then trust Members to perform that role well. Surely that is the case we should put.

I enjoyed listening to Deputy Ross's worries about people forming judgments or forming reservations in regard to the work they may do. Deputy Ross does that every day of the week. He does it in the House and elsewhere, and he does it well. If he trusts himself to do that well elsewhere, why should he not trust himself not to do so properly in a committee which is supported and well-resourced and has a Bill like this behind it?

If we do not trust ourselves to do this, who should do it? Deputy Ross went through some of the candidates there. I will make two points in this regard. The first point is that if this House was to set up another body to discharge the functions most people think we should discharge, the first criticism laid against this Government, or the Oireachtas, would be that we were setting up another quango and that we should do that work ourselves. I presume that Deputy Ross would be one of the first people to make that charge given his clear expertise in that area.

The second point, which Deputy Ross laid out, is a very interesting idea, namely, that we should adopt a Constitutional Convention model and discharge this particular function to people fair and wise who are randomly chosen. The difficulty with that is the slippery slope it could open up. Let us say we hand over this power to these people for a period of time, what other powers might be worthy of handing over to such a body for other periods of time and for other purposes? What other roles do we think these people could perform?

That is where we get into the sanctity of the role of the Oireachtas and of Parliament. If a body is elected to carry out a particular role and to form judgments, surely we should give it proper legislative underpinning and the scope it needs. That is what this Bill will do. If a committee is formed to do that work, it will be difficult, as will the early days of that committee. There is absolutely no guarantee of success but the lack of guarantee of success should not be a reason not to try. Surely when people cast a vote for their Deputy, they do so in the reasonable expectation that he or she can make a judgment not only formed by political affiliation, but based on his or her own opinions and faculties.

I refer to a related issue, namely, the operation of the party Whip in the future. An area about which we will need to think carefully - this is very apparent to me - is that when such a committee is formed in the future, it should not be whipped by the party structure. If we are saying we want people to reasonably form conclusions in regard to particular events and so on, then it is important that Members of the Oireachtas are allowed to do so entirely devoid of any external pressure, whether the party Whip or otherwise. I strongly believe that it will be very difficult for that judgment to be exercised with the maintenance of that Whip.

The passage of this Bill will allow the glorious reconciliation of Deputy Ross, the orator, and Deputy Ross, the inquisitor, in one function. If people are elected to carry out a particular function, we should see whether they can perform it and putting in place the best possible structure to allow that to happen is important. This Bill will provide the opportunity to do that and if passed, Members will rise to the occasion.

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