Michael McNamara (Clare, Labour) | Oireachtas source

In his remarks, Deputy Michael McGrath spoke about the need to balance the needs and rights of the borrowers with those of the banks. I clearly agree, as I am sure does the Minister and his Government colleagues. It is self-evident that we need to live in a society that is just and in a functioning economy. It is very much in the banks' interest to ensure the economy functions as efficiently economically as possible.

Deputy Michael McGrath and to a far greater extent those who sit in the Independent benches behind him paint a picture of banks where there is a rush and desire to repossess and take over properties. From what I heard at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, on which Deputy Michael McGrath sits, and from what I have heard locally in County Clare, there certainly are repossessions. Banks are putting considerable pressure on people and some of that pressure should not be applied. However, the pressure is to pay the banks money. I do not sense that there is a desire among the banks to repossess. There is talk of waivers of repossessions. There is an increase in repossessions, particularly of investment properties and obviously the provisions of the Bill do not apply to investment properties. However, banks are obviously repossessing as a very last resort. Why would a commercial entity seek to take a property it then needs to sell in a completely depressed market and crystallise a loss? I do not accept there is a rush by banks to repossess. The banks are not acting as they should and are putting people under considerable pressure, but that does not necessarily mean they want to repossess.

I welcome the Bill's provisions that any such proceedings would be adjourned to seek a personal insolvency arrangement. As I have done previously, I also question the rush to point out the failures and deem the personal insolvency arrangement, which is just about to commence its work, a failure in advance of it even operating after years of having nothing operating. We have to give this a chance. Banks are cold-hearted commercial creatures and it is in their interests to make this work. The Minister, Deputy Shatter, is on record as saying that if the banks stonewall and do not co-operate, which is unlikely, the Government will review the legislation. The banks enter the personal insolvency process knowing that in many instances the alternative is bankruptcy in which case they would lose considerably more. Of course, if they are sufficiently secured, they may gain the property but then have to sell it in a depressed environment. The banks are not interested in property owning, unlike the great majority of people who are caught in this horrendous situation.

I refer to one particular category of people. Considerable noise has come from the GRA conference as it does from all such trade union and association conferences, but usually amid the noise there is a grain of truth. In this instance it has been revealed, as many of us already knew, that many gardaí are in financial difficulties, some of them with their own personal mortgages, but many in respect of investment properties. They find themselves barely able to pay the family home mortgage and unable to pay the investment property mortgage if there is a break in the tenancy for whatever reason.

There is doubt as to whether members of the Garda Síochána can enter into a personal insolvency arrangement. I see the Minister shake his head. If there is absolutely no doubt and the Minister wishes to clarify that for the benefit of the House, I would welcome it. However, there a doubt among members of the Garda to whom I have spoken, including friends with whom I attended school, constituents and neighbours. There is doubt in their minds as to whether they can apply for and enter a personal insolvency arrangement without falling foul of their code of conduct. If there is no such doubt, I would greatly welcome the clarification.

As long as there is a doubt, it is a matter that needs to be considered urgently in the context of seeking to achieve €300 million savings in the public payroll and also in the context of this Bill.

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