Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank and acknowledge the work undertaken by Deputy Ó Fearghaíl in the development of the Bill. I thank Deputy Calleary for presenting it on his behalf. I welcome the opportunity this gives us to focus on the issue of female participation in politics here in Ireland. This is a topic we have addressed many times before in debate in the House and one that greatly concerns the Government.

This issue was considered in great detail in 2009 by the then Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, which produced a very worthwhile and informative report entitled, Women's Participation in Politics This report identified five challenges facing women in politics. These are known as the five Cs, which Deputy Calleary mentioned. I again remind the House that they are as follows: child care; cash; confidence; culture; and candidate selection procedures. I know they can also affect fathers of young children.

The committee also examined the issue of maternity leave in the context of its discussion on child care. The committee's recommendation was that women Members of the Oireachtas who give birth while in office should be entitled to automatic pairing arrangements. When I was an Opposition Whip, a number of Fine Gael female Members gave birth while in office and I always looked after them with pairing arrangements. I am sure the same system would work across the House with all parties. I believe such an arrangement should also be in place for a short number of days for fathers at the time of the birth of a child. This would reflect the important role fathers have to play in family life and reflect an advancement of equality of roles within the caring duties carried out by parents. At the birth of a child or the adoption of a child, both parents should be looked after within the pairing system in the House.

As Members are aware the Government has, on foot of a commitment in the programme for Government, amended the Electoral Acts for the purpose of increasing female participation in politics in the context of candidate selection. It was interesting to listen to the Deputy from Donegal who outlined all the negative parts of what the Government had done, including taxing maternity benefit. He never mentioned what we have done to address gender balance in the forthcoming general election, which is a significant step. I understand where he is coming from because I know that those on the far side of the House and especially those seated up at the back talk endlessly about the negatives and find it very hard to talk about the positives. Perhaps the Deputy should have considered what the Government has done in this area before coming to this debate. I believe the change is positive and we have made considerable progress. I did not see the Deputy or his colleagues introduce legislation to address gender quotas or women's participation in politics, since I became a Member of the House.

This ground-breaking measure will ensure at least a quota of 30% of women candidates will go before the electorate at the next general election. While we have debated this issue both inside and outside these Houses many times, little progress has been made. The facts speak for themselves. At the last general election of the 556 candidates who ran for election only 86 were women. Some 90 years after women got the vote fewer than one in seven of our Deputies are women.

The Minister of State with responsibility for equality, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, has advanced an initiative under the national women's strategy to examine women's role in decision-making in Ireland. A report will be shortly published which, I understand, will recommend that female Deputies on maternity leave should be entitled to an automatic pairing arrangement possibility for the period of maternity leave recommended by the international labour organisation, ILO.

Women play an active role in many aspects of public and community life. They are highly visible in residents' associations, local charities groups, boards of management of schools and chambers of commerce. In every local community women are the leading lights in all these organisations and are often CEOs of chambers of commerce and companies. While it is difficult for them to have such leading roles, what stops them becoming involved in politics? I accept Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh's point about the hours we work. I know that the Dáil sits on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays with late sittings on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. The Deputy needs to take into account those Deputies who live far from Dublin when deciding the sitting arrangements for the House.

This brings me to the substance of the Bill whose objective is laudable. The Government is concerned that the method of achieving that objective set out in the Bill poses constitutional and other legal difficulties. Before I outline those, I wish to say that I hope I can persuade my colleague Deputy Calleary, who has been in contact with the Minister on the issue, not to push the Bill to a vote, but instead to agree to work together to see if within the internal arrangements, including the Standing Orders of both Houses, we can find a way of achieving the shared objective without having to face any constitutional difficulties because I believe the objective of the legislation is welcome.

The difficulties we on the Government side see with the Bill are as follows. We, as Members of the Oireachtas, are not employees but officeholders. We do not fall within the statutory employment protection legislation, because we are not employees. Consequently, we do not qualify for the various social welfare schemes in place to support workers when they are sick or on maternity or adoptive leave. We are also not covered by what is known as the workplace relationship legislation - such as unfair dismissal legislation and the organisation of working time legislation.

The proposal to provide for maternity leave for female Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas - as if we were employees - may raise a constitutional issue since it would in effect make provision for State recognition of an absence from her duties under the Constitution of a Member of either House during the maternity leave period and for State remuneration during that absence. The reality is that Members are entitled to their salary allowance as a matter of law during their period of membership of the relevant House and there is no provision for non-payment of the salary during this period. As Members we organise our own work patterns and - subject to Members on my side of the House being here when I need them to be here - the balance between Dáil work on legislation and other parliamentary business on the one hand, and constituency and other work on the other is managed by the individual Deputy at his or her own discretion and is not subject to approval by an employer.

We need to consider two issues. Would it be possible under the Constitution to legislate for such an absence from duty for Deputies and Senators? What additional provision, if any, could be made in such legislation for payment of the salary allowance - and other allowances - to a Member in respect of such absences, given that the law already provides for the payment of salary for the full duration of membership of either House of the Oireachtas?

The question may well arise as to whether the provision of maternity leave should equate to a formal leave of absence such that the Member is, albeit temporarily, no longer performing her duties as a Member. The Bill does not propose for a temporary replacement of a Member during her absence on maternity leave and this in any event would raise issues both relating to electoral law and possibly also the Constitution. If any mother were to take two or three months off, I do not believe she would like a substitute coming in to take her place because we are all very protective of our seats within the House.

My final difficulty with the Bill is a practical one.

Anyone involved in politics knows our electoral system does not allow any Member the luxury of taking a six month break from constituency politics while being able to expect the seat to be kept warm by one's party colleagues in anticipation of one's return. We need to find a way of encouraging more women to get involved in politics, and of encouraging young mothers to stay involved, while bearing in mind the reality of daily political life, about which I do not need to tell any Deputy.

The Bill also proposes what I consider to be very generous terms for Members of the House on maternity leave, which are far ahead of those available to most young mothers. In the current difficult economic times we need to reflect on this element of the Bill. Most women on maternity leave receive a social welfare payment, known as maternity benefit, between a maximum amount of €262 and a minimum amount of €217 a week. This said, the Government fully supports the objective of increasing the number of women in politics and of making Leinster House a friendly and supportive place for young mothers.

We should consider what we in the Oireachtas can do in a practical way to progress this objective by supporting the young mothers and fathers among Deputies and Senators. I do understand. I listened to Deputies Calleary and Ó Snodaigh speak about the work-life balance in the Dáil, which can be extremely challenging for mothers. As Deputy Ó Snodaigh stated, one can make an arrangement to collect one's children only to arrive here in the morning to discover the entire day has changed. This happens on occasion, as do changes to the Dáil calendar. It is the nature of the work we do in Leinster house. It is politics. I have spoken to members of other Parliaments, who have the same difficulty as that which we are discussing. Perhaps we should examine more closely whether arrangements exist in other Parliaments for women going on maternity leave, and the types of systems they have in place.

We should work together on the Bill. I urge Deputy Ó Fearghaíl to see what we can achieve through internal Houses of the Oireachtas arrangements. Primary legislation raises serious problems, as I have explained, and the Government would have to oppose the Bill on technical grounds if it was pushed to a vote. I suggest that we do not move to a vote and instead work together to see what can actually be achieved in a practical way without the requirement of primary legislation. This could be considered first by the Whips and then by the Leinster House authorities.

With regard to Friday sittings, on occasion we deal with a hot topic and many Deputies are present, but for this Bill, which deals with women in politics, two men and two women are present in the Chamber. Perhaps this shows the interest some Members have in this topic. We must be very much aware of this.

Yesterday morning, the Ceann Comhairle raised an issue with regard to ordering Friday sittings, and I very much take on board the comments he made. We took them very seriously when he made the same comments a number of weeks ago. At that stage I went to the Whips and asked them their views on it. They stated they would like to-----

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