Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank all Deputies for their contributions to the debate and for the very constructive approach they have taken to the legislation. As the Deputies opposite have stated, this is in the best interests of the child and is the right thing to do in terms of court procedures. It will allow for proper time and attention for proper risk assessment, which is very important. It is very clear from all of the reports we have received that assessments on best plans for children, making detailed plans to ensure they get the best services and understanding their problems accurately have been missing in some, but not all, cases. All sides agreed that returning to court regularly does not help this. The previous time allowed was 28 days, so this is positive legislation and will lead to better practice and better outcomes for children with regard to court procedures.

Quite a number of Deputies raised the issue of legal costs, and I can only agree. It is a shame we have such an adversarial legal system when it comes to decisions about children. Last year, the total child care legal costs - not total HSE costs - were €31.1 million. The guardian ad litem system has not been regulated properly and we need proper legislation to regulate guardians ad litem. I am in discussion with the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, on this and we will see action in the course of this year. We will have more regulation and a clear outline of qualifications. Guardian ad litem is a very important role to play in terms of representing the best interests of a child.

Mr. Gordon Jeyes has taken quite a number of initiatives on legal services in the HSE and the approach to attendance in court by social workers. A new template has been provided for social workers with regard to court practice, because we have had inconsistency throughout the country. More training has been given to social workers. A new guidance document has been issued, as has a learning digest to ensure staff throughout the country hear about legal opinions given in other court cases so that they know about the precedents which have been set. This sounds very basic but we have not had it before, and it is aimed at avoiding repeat expenditure on similar legal services.

The number of authorised legal service users has been considerably reduced, and this change is very important. We have not had this type of control in terms of accessing expensive legal services. A new group is working on this in child and family services within the HSE. Mr. Jeyes has established a court working group to oversee all of this. Work is under way to have a better approach. The bottom line is the adversarial legal system, and this needs to change. As Deputy Harris stated, we will move towards this with the referendum in the autumn on the courts. We must develop the model which is most appropriate for Ireland. Some people mentioned Scotland, but we need to change and move more towards a mediation and contact centres type of approach when making decisions on children.

I had to give proper time to considering the issues because there was the question of changing what might be seen as fair procedures and family rights. I received the final report with the views of the HSE on 22 October. I went to Cabinet six weeks later and got agreement to draft legislation, which I did within a month and it went to the Seanad in February. I have a heavy legislative schedule and all Departments have limited resources when it comes to drafting legislation.

With regard to the other legislation about which Deputies have asked, I am happy to have consultation on them. I will have a discussion tomorrow with some groups on the Children First legislation and I would be very happy to have consultations as requested. Work has been developing on this legislation, as it has on the child and family support agency. As Deputy Troy stated, it is significant legislation with well over 100 heads. We have seen agencies being established in a hurry previously, most notably the HSE. I want to do it properly. As Deputy Mattie McGrath stated, it involves the transfer of 4,000 staff. The difference it will make is that it will be a dedicated agency with a sole focus. The managers will be primarily focused on child and family services. Previously, the same managers have had responsibility for accident and emergency services, immunisation, general nursing issues and hospital issues. Now 17 managers will have a total focus on child and family services and there will be greater accountability. There will be closer contact between the front line and management, and this is very important. This is how to have a better service. When we want to establish quality services, we put a key focus on the issues, and this is what we are doing with the establishment of the agency. It is important to remember the High Court and the Supreme Court accepted the bona fides of our approach on the referendum.

A number of points were made on knowing more about what is happening in court. Dr. Carol Coulter will report, probably within the next month, on her initial findings on the court reporting survey. This will be published on a dedicated website and will give us more information on what is happening in our courts with regard to child care, which will be a great help. The Minister, Deputy Alan Shatter, will bring forward legislation to change the in camera rule. While respecting the rights of children, privacy issues and ensuring children are not identified, the legislation will mean we will have more information about what happens in courts. Inconsistencies exist throughout the country with regard to children in court and this should not be the case. The first step is to identify the inconsistencies, as a number of Deputies have said, and understand precisely what is happening in the courts.

A number of other points were made in regard to the Health Information and Quality Authority. I reassure Deputies that the HIQA reports are being acted upon. I launched the new standards for child protection. I welcome these HIQA reports and we will have far more of them. We will have six or seven in the coming weeks on fostering. The first report by HIQA on children protection in Carlow and Kilkenny is coming in the next few weeks. I have no doubt those reports will show that there are improvements still to be made. These services will not be changed overnight. I have to look back at the position I inherited in terms of the lack of national systems, national standards, national data and national management. However, we are moving to a situation where they are in place. There are 11 new inspectors inspecting child care facilities. We will have more inspection. That is a key way forward in terms of improving standards. It is the right thing to do and it is right that resources be put into it. However, we must respond to those reports and arrive at a situation where we do not have the same findings as previously but that the position has improved and is improving.

A review group has gone into the north west. The findings in regard to child protection there are unacceptable, some of which is historic but some of which is recent. I put an independent expert in there to monitor what is happening to ensure the next time HIQA reports, we will see the necessary changes, particularly in regard to child protection. It is clear from the HIQA reports on fostering for Louth, Dún Laoghaire and Limerick that there are consistent and good services in place. It is important to highlight the areas where work needs to be done but equally to acknowledge where progress has been made. It is clear that the findings in Dublin north-west are not acceptable and will be dealt with. I have met the management teams. Part of the difficulty was that many of the care situations in which the children were placed were relative foster care. Historically, there was an assumption that the same level of rigorous assessment was not required. That is not the case. Wherever a child is placed, we have to be absolutely certain that child protection is the key issue and concern.

I thank Deputies for raising a range of issues. Deputy Simon Harris mentioned issues in regard to childminders. The early years strategy group which I have initiated will examine the issue. We are going to have a national policy on the early years. Traditionally, Irish parents have taken a decision to recruit childminders themselves and the State has not interfered. I would like to see a situation where childminders get more support. How heavy the regulation needs to be is the question but the Deputy pointed out that at least 50,000 children are in that position. It has traditionally been left to the private sphere. If we got to a situation where childminders got the value of registering and the support from the local child care committees, that would be a good thing. It is disappointing that so few have registered. However, the early years group will examine the issue.

In regard to adoption, the Deputy made a point about the adoption of Irish children and the potential for children to get a second chance. That is an important point. The position on intercountry adoption is changing dramatically with families in many countries from where children were adopted, such as India and Russia, adopting children. There was no practice of adoption within those countries, but that is becoming much more prevalent. Therefore, the number of children available for intercountry adoption is changing. That is a new context for Irish families to become aware of and understand.

Deputy Patrick Nulty asked about after-care. There is a need for a review of the Child Care Acts. I will review those. I did not use the opportunity of the Bill before us to do that because it is a more comprehensive job than I was able to get done in the time available. I hope to bring forward an amendment on child care and, if possible, under the child and family support agency Bill when it comes to the House.

I thank Deputies for their contributions and support for the Bill.

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