Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent) | Oireachtas source

We do many things in the wrong order and this is one of them because we are doing it in the absence of the sort of detail we need, as is indicated by the number of amendments that have been ruled out of order which relate to the wider picture as opposed to the specific nature of the Bill. We do not know the detail. When we get to Report Stage, we are not talking about broad principles, we are talking about detail, but that detail is entirely absent.

In principle, I have no objection to metering water to ensure it is not wasted, but there must be a sufficient free supply so people can live. This is not a commodity and there must be investment in building wastewater treatment plants to the specifications required and upgrading of deficient water pipes. That level of investment necessary would be significantly less if more than 48% of water treated arrived in people's houses. Wastage levels of 52% are outrageous and none of us would defend that.

We are being asked to take a leap of faith and while I do not doubt the Minister of State's personal bona fides, when I look at the packaging of Irish Water and consider the obligations the European Union has placed upon us in terms of our debt to GDP ratio, I know not meeting that 3% target will be a significant issue for us. We all know the Government will tax fresh air to reach that 3% target. There is not sufficient control over the taxing of water, particularly if this asset is sold off, and I am seriously concerned that it will not remain in public ownership. I do not see water as a commodity and feel it should remain in public hands.

On Committee Stage, we were told €1.2 billion is needed and that €300 million is provided in subsidy. Is there any guarantee of that subsidy continuing? We saw with the property tax how much money has been withdrawn from the local government fund. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government was not behind the door in telling us that €150 million was being withdrawn from the ring-fenced local government fund, not because we need to maintain the roads but to pay the national debt. Can the Minister of State give us a guarantee that the €300 million subsidy will continue into the future?

One of the amendments I tabled that was ruled out of order related to the free allowance. I wanted to see some assurances on these two issues: ownership and the free allowance. The free allowance should make poverty less of an issue. In the absence of a respectable free allowance, we should insist on poverty-proofing.

In the absence of those assurances, I would be completely in support of the points to which I have referred.

Shortages arise, not only in summer. In north Kildare we have experienced difficulties, sometimes because developers have taken shortcuts in the way pipes have been laid so that they are far too close to the surface and will freeze in winter. Then there is the inadequacy of supply where there is enough water in the country but it is not in the right place and it is not all treated. There is an abundance of water in the west but on the east coast there are times when the water supply is on a knife-edge.

There are other aspects of Irish Water in terms of metering. It will not only be a matter of metering. With some of those pipes that are laid far too close to the surface, when one lifts up the cover on the stopcock one finds it is practically at the surface and there will not be a place to put the meter, if meters are to be put on top of the valve. It depends where they are put. They can be put closer to the house. There is an argument for doing so because one would capture what happens outside of the house, including on the property of the homeowner. I want to hear what the Minister of State has to say about what will be done in terms of metering in situations where those deficiencies are encountered.

There will be residents resisting payment of a water charge, even in the context of waste, where they can be without water for days on end. Whereas that might have been satisfactorily dealt with in some places, over the two bad winters I came across residents without water for up to two weeks. That was in an urban area, not in a rural area on a hill-top.

There are also deficiencies where all kinds of engineering feats were attempted to open up ways of putting more water into a system where those at the end of a supply chain are always the ones whose pressure is reduced. Owners of such residences will resist these attempts in the absence of being guaranteed reasonable water pressure that will provide them with a supply. This is not necessarily to do with leakage or waste. Some of these deficiencies have occurred because of the lack of oversight when housing estates were developed. It is an issue that must be remediated.

Clearly, there is a difficulty with the amount of water supply. In Kildare, for example, the water is primarily purchased from Dublin City Council, from Ballymore Eustace, and from Fingal at its Leixlip water treatment plant but the amount of water required, for example, for Intel, would be equivalent to that for the town of Leixlip, which has a population in excess of 16,000. No doubt if we reduce the waste of water, it reduces the kind of pressure on the amount of supply, although north Kildare does not feature large in terms of the amount of water that is wasted because the percentage is in the low 20s.

The important aspect for me is the free allowance and the absolute guarantee of Irish Water staying within the State sector. We are passing this legislation in blind faith. We have been talking about process for the past number of months in terms of how we do business here, and the way legislation is presented to us is part of that, especially with regard to a project that is being implemented on a piecemeal basis.

I would also ask the Minister of State about the governance issue. It is essential that we see the architecture of it, not least for the protection of those who work within the water services and who often do a good job. There are good leak detection units and some of the big water treatment plants are very well run. It is essential to see a complete governance approach. That is one of the elements that is missing.

With regard to an aspect that arose on Committee Stage, the Department's favoured approach is through PPPs. It is almost as though one does not get one's upgrade unless one does it by way of PPP. The international experience appears to suggest that this is the wrong approach. We were given examples, such as Paris, where the PPP had to be bought out and the system had to be brought back within public control. Will Irish Water be free to look at best governance or will it continue with the approach taken by the Department, that while other options are viable only the one approach will be taken? This often does not produce the best financial return for the State. Consumers are concerned about how their money is used and it is important we know what kind of arrangements will apply where there will be new facilities put in place in addition to the water supply and the metering issue.

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