Michael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Calleary for allowing me five minutes to contribute to the debate. I want to reflect on the major concerns among people about this Bill in terms of ability to pay.

A number of issues arise, the first of which is that every house that goes through a sale or transfer transaction must have an energy efficiency rating certificate. Will something have to be done about that in the Bill because the majority of houses on which tax will have to be paid will not be have that certificate? That must be examined because if the Minister is saying, on the one hand, that such a certificate is necessary for a transaction, how can he say the house is liable for a property tax on the other hand? That issue must be teased out.

Also, many elderly people living on their own are talking about making wills to bequeath their properties. It is not only elderly people who are considering that. People in the full of their health are also making wills, but their concern is about the value they put on the house. They put a particular valuation on the house but when the estate goes through probate subsequently, will there be another liability on the estate because of calculations they believed were correct at the time? The issue was raised in regard to Dublin about which many Members spoke.

How can a value be put on a house that is tied to a business, be it a small business or a farm? If a house that is situated in a cul de sac and which is tied into a number of other properties were put up for sale, there probably would not be any sale value in it. How would the Revenue put a value on such a property? These are the issues of major concern to members of the public in terms of their ability to pay.

The biggest problem is that there is a group of people in negative equity, an issue which has been discussed at length in the House. A number of people are very far behind in their mortgage payments. They have furnished records of their personal finances to their banks. They have engaged financial consultants or MABS with a view to parking loans and making sure that the roof is kept over their heads. Irrespective of what is being said, solicitors to whom I have spoken in the past week or two about individual cases say the reality is that the banks are not engaging in respect of specific queries or serious hardship cases. I could name the cases I have in regard to banks. In the past fortnight I have been trying to make contact, electronically, by telephone and in writing, with one of the banks, and it has failed to come back to me. The person who has the distressed loan is in an extremely distressed state. Irrespective of the value of the house or of any issue that will come down the line, I cannot understand how a property tax can be imposed on that person, who built a house but who is now on €188 a week, with no other income. That person simply does not have the money for the basic requirements - food, heating and so forth.

We are debating this Bill again. On the issue of social housing and communities that have developed housing projects - what would be known in the communities as the sheltered housing associations - where do they stand in regard to the advice their tenants are getting, which is conflicting? We have not brought clarity to those issues.

To recap, I cannot understand how the property tax can be imposed in respect of houses that do not have an energy rating certificate. I cannot understand how it can be imposed on elderly people who are making decisions on the transfer of property because the valuation they might put on their houses now may change in the future when it is processed through the system. Where will they end up? We thought there would be clarity in regard to social housing. We assume there will be clarity on that issue on Committee Stage; it is something that must be examined because the associations are concerned about it. Many of them are national associations but many of the local associations in small communities are wondering where they stand in regard to this property tax.

The bottom line is that people will not be able to pay this tax. Many people are going to their TDs, and not just to Members on this side of the House, seeking advice and help in regard to engaging with banks on facilities for loans and so on.

They are in a very distressed state. The bottom line is that the money is not there. In a full year one is talking about €500 million, money that will be taken out of the economy. A credit union survey shows that many people end up with only €50 a month to spend after everything else has been paid, for but many are €50 in debt at the end of the month and must borrow from parents or relatives to try to keep the wolf from the door. People have children going to school and third level and want to do the best for their families. Rural communities, in particular, are faced with a double whammy. They are faced with this tax and the septic tank charge and do not know where it will all end. I appeal to the Minister and the Government to rethink this tax in order that we will not be back here discussing, as my colleague said, an amendment Bill to an amendment Bill.

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