Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes. I understand he is standing in for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, who is away today.

I have a couple of questions. I am calling for the Government to commit funding to ensure there is an independent review. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, which is leading these talks, did not exist when the Croke Park agreement was originally set up. Over the past year, they made one effort at reducing costs, which was on the issue of allowances. They promised savings of €150 million per annum and 5% of the target was achieved. Clearly, therefore, there is neither the competence nor the ability within the Department to assess properly the savings that can arise from this. Past experience has shown that.

It is important for the public to recognise that the Government is the main employer in the State, while the trade unions are representing employees' interests. From the Government's viewpoint the negotiations are to cut costs, while the trade unions wish to look after their members' interests. Despite the document that was published last year, I do not see on that agenda any concern for front-line services and the public interest. It is not sufficient to say "We issued the document last year dealing with that. That was then and this is now, and we have to move on now with our cost-cutting programme". This cannot be done.

I think the cost of leaving is budgeted at €110,000 per person, plus their pension to which they are entitled. It is a large cost and the public would like to see that justified. The Minister of State referred to a figure of €1 billion in savings, but will he add on to that the €400 million cost of the redundancy package? Will it essentially be €1.4 billion in gross savings, or is it €1 billion minus the savings to be made, while excluding the actual costs incurred to achieve that €1 billion?

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