Derek Nolan (Galway West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

The two other perinatal psychiatrists, however, said that suicide in pregnancy exists and is real. For the majority of women the last thing they would do would be to suggest or prescribe a termination. It is a mental health issue and there are ways to treat it. One treats it as one would the risk of suicide in other areas. Nonetheless there are examples, known to the medical professionals, where it is prevalent to such a degree that this approach should be taken. If only one woman per year or per decade is at such risk, that woman needs to be protected. She needs to have her rights vindicated and her right to life - for that is what we are talking about - as a mother and as a woman protected. The reality is that at the moment we send people to England and they are afraid to come forward.

When we are discussing this in future and if we get to deal with legislation, the doctors have asked for two options. One concerns how to deal with the majority of cases of women who will not require a termination. They will require medical help and counselling. The second concerns dealing with those exceptional cases that may require it. We need to be cognisant of both possibilities when we are debating and putting forward legislation.

I also wish to refer to some of the arguments that have come forward against this matter. The first one is that the Supreme Court judgment is flawed. That is a very cavalier thing to say. It was said in this House on a number of occasions that five members of the Supreme Court got it wrong, even though in two referendums the public upheld their view. Simply refusing to accept the judgment does not make it flawed.

The second argument, which we hear a lot, is that Ireland is one of the safest places in the world for women to give birth. I do not deny that but the safest country is Italy which has a much more liberal regime on these matters. Therefore it is a nonsensical argument and it should stop being cited.

The third argument is that we are going down the route taken in the UK. This is the most unfair argument of all because the UK law is based on the 1967 Act which refers not to the life of a woman but to her physical or mental health.

It refers to mental or physical abnormalities or serious disabilities. As none of those scenarios would happen in Ireland, where a constitutional protection is in place on the life of the unborn, this again is a complete red herring.

The fourth argument one hears, which is technical in nature, is that the Supreme Court did not hear medical evidence when it was making its decision. This goes back to the idea that the judgment was flawed. However, the Supreme Court never hears evidence. It is an appellate court that hears appeals from the High Court, which hears evidence. Moreover, in the instance of the X case, the risk of suicide was accepted by both sides and therefore, it never came into issue.

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his indulgence and will conclude by noting that I am very aware that as a man, I will never be in this position. However, I do not believe this precludes me from having an opinion on the subject. I like to think that I represent women, that I represent my mother, my sister, my friends, my colleagues and people with whom I work. Members never should forget they are discussing scenarios in which a woman's life is at risk. They are discussing very limited circumstances, as I have outlined on the issue of suicide, in which it may occur. However, the broader issue of the right to life and the clarity for doctors must be clarified. Finally, I note the X case judgment is the law in Ireland and Members must legislate for it because it is the law of Ireland that has been upheld twice by the people in referendums. The grounds to which it refers, that is, a real and substantial risk to the life of the mother, are nothing short of a pro-life position and everyone should be able to subscribe to protecting that and to vindicating that right.

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