Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

Yes. They relate to the insertion of the phrase "Pensions and Miscellaneous Provisions". I accept the Minister's argument about the inclusion of the word "pensions" but redundancy payments do not relate to social welfare. They are dealt with in the Redundancy Payments Acts, which are not referred to in the principal part of this Bill. That is part of the argument here and, as I have said, a range of issues have been included. I am not too pushed about the amendment being accepted because the Bill has the same effect regardless of whether it is called the Social Welfare Bill or the Social Welfare, Pensions and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill. Either way, it is a draconian Bill.

On the points raised by the Minister, I did not say I was opposed to the household budgeting measures. All I said was that I would prefer a longer period to discuss them.

As the Minister acknowledged, these are technically challenging measures. Our experience in constituency offices and councils suggests that we could identify solutions to problems that may emerge in three or four years time.

This is a potential solution for people who may not be able to manage their money properly. We have, for example, asked that rent supplement be paid directly to the landlord. Similarly, some people cannot manage their social welfare payments fully because they are in distress, addicted or simply never learned to budget the little they have. That is the only argument I was making and I am not opposing the measure.

We do, however, put a different emphasis on overpayment and error. I recognise that overpayments should be recovered but I am being a realist in proposing an amnesty. The Minister admitted that it will not be possible to recover all of the money. At some stage the slate will be wiped clean and we are suggesting a line in the sand beyond which those who continue to commit fraud will suffer the full consequences. However, many of the overpayments are due to error. The Minister is introducing a penal regime which will take €28 from a payment of €188. That is a substantial amount given all the other changes affecting Irish society. Those who were wrong in taking overpayments should suffer the consequences and the State should recover what is owed to it but we should not put those who are at risk of poverty into poverty.

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