Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I would not have a problem whatsoever with vouching. If the Government introduces legislation to introduce vouching, I will vote for it. If there is legislation to do away with the allowance completely for all parties and Independents, I will vote for that also.

It must be very difficult for the people to accept the golden handshake given to people leaving this Chamber. Everyone has mentioned the size of pensions. It is frightening to believe that some are receiving €150,000 when others are trying to live on €15,000 or €16,000. The lack of fairness is difficult for people to take. People are angry that the recession has gone on for so long and over youth unemployment. They are also very angry about the excesses of the bankers. What annoys them most is inequality. This is the most soul-destroying phenomenon of all. Inequality is increasing and there are many reasons therefor. In 1980, the average chief executive in the developed world made 40 times an industrial worker's wage. In 2011, the average chief executive made 325 times that wage. This is a serious problem and it is replicated right across the board. I do not understand how the system can sustain this neoliberal philosophy in the longer term.

With regard to pensions, I read the contribution to this debate of the Minister of Strate, Deputy Hayes yesterday evening. He said pensions are deferred income and property rights. In the private sector, most pensions are deferred income and it is easy to argue they are property rights. However, in the banking industry and the public service, where there are defined benefit schemes rather than defined contribution schemes, there is not the same argument regarding property rights. Whether we like it or not, the banks that have been bailed out by Government effectively employ public servants. The banking industry is not in the private sector because the banks are standing on their feet today because of the taxpayer. Therefore, the staff are public servants and there should be far more control over their decisions. The Government should tell them what to do, not the opposite. Who is wagging the tail? There was a time when banks worked for the people but it is now the people who are working for the banks. This is the wrong way around.

It is ridiculous to ask people to take reductions in their pensions, something that has been referred to as moral persuasion. I would like to see legal persuasion rather than moral persuasion. There needs to be much more direct action on the part of the State to reign in those responsible for the terrible abuses in the pensions and banking industry.

I accept Deputy Spring's point in that I have no problem with our looking at ourselves first. It is time that we gave ourselves less money. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, in answer to a question to Deputy Terence Flanagan some time ago, stated it is important to point out that legal advice from the Attorney General stipulates it is possible to apply proportionate reductions to existing pensions but that account must be taken of the fact that pension benefits are considered to be property rights, which limits the action that can be taken. Members of the Oireachtas, including Ministers, have not been insulated from the financial crisis that has affected and continues to affect all sectors of the economy, according to the Minister. To say we are not insulated in this House is disingenuous because we are. We need to take a serious look at ourselves.

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