Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Tá sé tráthúil go bhfuil an t-ábhar seo á phlé againn inniu agus gabhaim buíochas don Teachta Mattie McGrath, a thosaigh an díospóireacht. It is very opportune because last week I, like many others, watched appalled the proceedings of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform. I saw what I can only describe as disdain on the part of bankers who had been called in to answer questions. Those questions were very probing and pertinent and were the kind of questions most people in society are asking. The impression I got was that their appearance at the committee was kind of an annoyance and a nuisance to get out of the way. Having deigned to come to the committee, they would leave and it would be business as usual afterwards. Of course, that business as usual means they continue on these highly inflated and, in this current climate, obscene salaries and pensions.

As we know, AIB used some of the €1.1 billion it got from the State to fund the estimated €0.5 million yearly pension to the former chief executive. The Taoiseach said today that it was also to cover the other voluntary retirements but the same point applies. A current chief executive will receive €300,000 per annum when he turns 65.

We have the list of these very inflated salaries and pensions which people are getting. They continue for State bodies, charitable organisations, bankers, members of the Judiciary, senior publics servants, the CEOs of semi-State bodies, former Cabinet Ministers, taoisigh, senior gardaí, Army officers, the President etc. Most unfair is that most of those who are getting these pensions are getting salaries and, in quite a number of cases, they are members of boards for which they are getting an array of expenses. It is all part of that same culture of unfairness.

I too read Stephen Collins's article in The Irish Times last Saturday. He looked at the cost of paying these pensions and he made the point that these pensions were well in excess of those paid to public figures in other European countries. So much has gone into the banks and yet they continue to call the shots. The recession and the cuts are hitting sections of society disproportionately and there appears to be little or no attempt to look across all sections of the society. Irish people are among the most generous and we see that in the way in which they donate to various causes. Our recovery could have been a co-operative and a collaborative effort and venture if there had been proportionate burden-sharing but it has not been proportionate.

I would be against these inflated salaries and pensions in good times because there is a limit which salaries and pensions should not exceed. To continue to pay these amounts in these straitened times is not only incredible but immoral. I do not think there has been any effort to address the pension issue and only a token gesture to cut the excessive salaries. I do not accept what the Minister for Finance said that he is powerless to reign in the salaries nor do I accept what the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform said that these people had a legitimate expectation that the pensions would continue regardless of the condition of the State's finances because surely that should apply to every member of society. This elite group will continue in the manner to which they have become accustomed regardless of the fact that this country is in dire financial straits.

The estimate in 2009 of the accrued liability to the State for public service pensions was €116 billion and that was before all of those voluntary retirements came following the February deadline. Another aspect to that deadline was the loss of experience and expertise in the public sector of those people who were almost pressured into retiring.

I would not agree with those inflated salaries and pensions even if somebody was doing a good job but we are giving them to people who are doing a disastrous job. It is like the bigger the mess they create, the bigger the salary, the bonus and the pension for those in charge of the banks. The banks have been bailed out for their mismanagement but those in mortgage arrears and negative equity must do their own bailing out with little or no resources and there is no debt forgiveness for those people.

I wonder about the psychological make up of the people on those salaries and pensions because obviously values like justice and fairness are not part of that make up nor is the aspect of social justice. Today the Taoiseach spoke about the former senior executives in banks being asked to make a voluntary decision to hand back the pensions but why are they not being told in the way communities are being told their community employment schemes are being cut and people with disabilities, schools and hospitals are being told they must take a cut? He mentioned the public interest directors but they are certainly not acting in the public interest. There is a challenge for the Government in the budget.

President Michael D. Higgins mentioned the need for a different set of values for our country which would bring about an ethical and inclusive society. What is happening with these salaries and pension is not contributing to that nor is the Government which allows it.

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