Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank my colleagues, both on this side of the House and on the other side for their outright support, and in many cases tacit support for the motion last night and tonight. Some Deputies referred this evening to the motion being slightly premature. The difficulty is that this process, according to the Minister, Deputy Burton’s idea of consultation, began in 2011. She floated the idea ahead of last year’s budget and it is still floating around prior to the forthcoming budget. She had formal meetings in February and it is now the end of October, coming into November. The biggest issue facing business at the moment, among all the other challenges, is the complete lack of certainty in the economy. There is very little we can do, given the international situation and the domestic situation but when a Minister decides to play poker with SMEs as the Minister, Deputy Burton, is doing, that adds to the uncertainty. I hope we have brought the issue to a head this evening. I would like to think she, in particular, would learn from the debate and the fact that her partners in government are slightly sceptical of her views, and that she would put an end to the consultation and make a decision one way or the other.

I noticed all the Labour Party contributions were from first-term Deputies, all proclaiming that the Minister, Deputy Burton, is some form of economic guru. Those Deputies who were in the previous Dáil and had to listen to her as spokesman on finance did not quite sign up to that fan club this evening. Some Labour Party members were quite sensitive. Deputy Nash in particular was sore that we would raise this issue and seek to attack the Minister, Deputy Burton. I can but refer all those sensitive Labour Deputies to one of their own, Senator Whelan, who was quoted in the Irish Examiner – he did not even wait to go into the Chamber – as saying that he cautioned the Minister against making employers pay more PRSI and become responsible for sick pay. He said such measures could push many small and medium enterprises over the edge. Perhaps in adding their firepower to the debate those Labour Deputies and Senators would do well to listen to Senator Whelan who represents SMEs in his constituency.

In the presence of the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, I acknowledged yesterday evening that some good initiatives have been taken by the Government. I welcomed the credit guarantee scheme and the microfinance scheme as well as some of the other initiatives that have been taken. One of the difficulties is that there is still no one place to go, in effect, a one-stop-shop. I accept the Minister of State is in the process of implementing such an approach. There is difficulty in getting the information out there. The difficulty with all of the initiatives the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, has taken in the Deputy of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and those taken by the Department of Finance, is that although they have put a small but fragile foundation onto a recovery, “Hurricane Burton” is on the loose again. If she gets away with putting what she agrees is an €89 million burden on SMEs then the foundation will be swept away in one fell swoop.

As I said last night, she has form. The way she implemented the change in redundancies was absolutely disgraceful. It is impacting on small businesses right across the country. One only has to look at the Chambers Ireland survey for confirmation. Deputy Nash just dismissed it. He was disappointed with the survey because he did not like the message. The Chambers Ireland survey showed that the redundancy decision had a negative impact on 60% of respondents. The Minister assured me in the House in January 2011 that it would not impact on SMEs. She said it was directed at the big companies going to low-cost locations. We agree with that approach, but when I tabled a parliamentary question seeking the breakdown of company by size – companies with fewer than 50 employees, 50 to 100 employees, and so on, that had received redundancy rebates - the Minister said the information was not available in the Department.

I agree with those Fine Gael speakers who sought a fact-based analysis on the sick pay scheme. The Minister does not seem to have many facts at her disposal, or if she does she is not willing to use them. Let us have a debate on a fact-based analysis and publish the Forfás report that was commissioned by the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, last year. The report is in the Minister’s office but he refused to publish it. We want a fact-based debate that will allow us to put forward costed alternatives. Labour Deputies, and Sinn Féin Deputies who have become economically responsible in the past seven days, want to see alternatives. The former Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, who was in the Department set out good ideas last night. If we are to have a fact-based debate then the Minister must publish the report that the Government’s own economic think-tank carried out on the scheme. It showed the negative impact it would have on employment and SMEs.

Those of us in the previous Dáil were treated to the hysterics of the Minister, Deputy Burton, on a weekly basis on the state of the country. Now she is being hailed as a guru and we must listen to her. She has had a Pauline conversion. The most extreme example of that would have shocked even St. Paul when last night she wrapped the flag of Seán Lemass around her. On a number of occasions last night she cited him as one of her inspirations. She said that Seán Lemass would never do certain things. He would never crucify the enterprise sector in the way she has done already, and if she gets away with it will do so again.

I am pleased the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, contributed to tonight’s debate. Until he spoke, the impression was given to the House by the Minister for Social Protection last night that she was dead intent on pursuing her policy on sick pay. I am pleased the Minister for Finance is present. I take hope from his remarks that the voice of reason will prevail within Cabinet. Nobody who acclaimed the legacy of Seán Lemass in the manner in which the Minister, Deputy Burton, tried to do could be deaf to the rumblings from a graveyard in north Dublin last night. The Minister would destroy and crucify the enterprise sector, first with redundancy rebates and now by forcing a sick pay scheme on it. That is what the Minister plans to do. I do not know whether she just does not understand the SME sector, if she is not interested in understanding it or whether she wants to wrap the red flag of Labour around her and show that she is more socialist than some others within the Labour Party and get all those first-term Deputies to vote for her in a leadership election, but she did admit last night that €89 million is what she thinks her proposed sick pay scheme would cost. It will probably cost a lot more. She just threw it out there as a figure that would be contributed to the cost of the social insurance scheme.

We must have a debate on absenteeism. We must have a debate on the proposed scheme and the social insurance fund. That is why we should publish the report. Where does the Minister think the €89 million will come from, some magic pot at the end of the Labour rainbow? I think not. It will come from Irish business. The Minister for Finance was correct to cite the reduction in labour costs that have been achieved through much hard work and tough decisions, and on the back of many workers in both the public and private sectors. However, if one lumps a minimum cost of €89 million on top of those labour costs then many of the gains in terms of the cost of employment in this country will be lost and the graph will fall back.

The motion is about certainty. Irish businesses and SMEs must know where they stand. I was contacted today by a business in the mid-west which eventually managed to get bank funding and which was on the verge of setting up a business to employ 15 staff. Those involved did not wait for the IDA to come to the mid-west. However, the company has parked its proposal until its sees the budget and, more important, what cost the scheme will impose on it.

Consultations have been ongoing for a year. The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, has been talking to herself on the matter probably for a lot longer. It is time to end the consultations and to make a decision so that at least the SME sector and the business sector in this country know where they stand. If sense prevails, and I suspect if the views of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, prevail, and this madness does not proceed then companies will be able to employ people and grow jobs, which despite our differences is what every single one of us in this House want to happen. They will be able to build on the foundations the Government has introduced, which I have acknowledged, and not have to worry that “Hurricane Joan” is going to destroy their legacy and ability. That is why we brought this debate to the House tonight. I hope the Minister for Finance will go back to Cabinet and put an end to this madness.

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