Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am sharing time with Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett. I welcome the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, who is standing in for the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, who had to leave. The Minister could not have found a more able and capable stand-in. I believe the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources was a Minister for Education in the past, although I am not certain of that.

I am delighted to speak on the Education and Training Boards Bill 2012.

It is a bold initiative, although there was opposition to it from the VECs. Having been a member of a VEC board for a long number years, and both a member and chairman of the adult education board, I have in-depth knowledge of the work the VEC has done. Ar an chéad dul síos, I pay tribute to all the different members of South Tipperary VEC over the years, particularly the different CEOs and officials. The board of the VEC was completely different from the county council in that it was more like a family. While there were elected members, community and business representatives and representatives from Teagasc, a lot of creative work was done. We should never forget that.

In fairness to our VEC and its current CEO, Ms Fionnuala McGeever, her adult education officer, Eileen Condon, and other staff such as Mary Roche and Veronica Crowe, and the team around them, the input they have and the value they have given to people's lives in south Tipperary is immense. I am delighted to see a member of the VEC in the Public Gallery, Councillor Richie Molloy, with a group of carers from south Tipperary. He understands this. The members work hard and this system has worked well.

Going back to the 1950s, when there was little educational opportunity, the VEC was the group that took up cudgels. Often they were regarded as the poor relations, called technical schools, and students at the tech were not considered to be the brightest students. The architects, engineers, carpenters and skilled people came out of them when they were needed to build the country. Now it has gone full circle and private schools are better to attend and be seen in, with better marks for the students who come out of them rather than the VECs. Now we are back to basics and back to our shoulder to the wheel.

I compliment the Minister and his officials for the work that was done on this Bill and the way they presented the amendments in time and the offer from the Minister to meet the committee and other interested parties to discuss further amendments. It is a good way to move forward.

The help people gave to people in education, counselling and advice was immense. The voluntary board members gave of their time week after week and month after month. When amalgamations of schools started some years ago, as happened in my town of Cahir, where three schools were amalgamated into one, there was huge cooperation. The rural people and their local representatives are not afraid of change or to engage with it - 99.9% are anxious to do better for their community and the people they represent. That is their ambition, it is the meitheal idea and Canon Hayes's vision of self-help and realising the potential in every citizen. The VECs have been at the forefront of that through the courses they have offered.

Control was from the bottom up, something which is lacking now. The Leader programme is trying to achieve it again but we have moved too much to central control. That is the worry I have about the Bill. It cuts the numbers of education and training boards from 38 to 16 and they will be made up of ten elected members, two parents and four community representatives. We need more than four community representatives because we need businesspeople who have innovative ideas to create jobs, skills and products to get us away from the bricks and mortar. Tens of thousands of people need to be upskilled and retrained. I do not view them as a commodity but they must change focus to suit present demands. The Minister is well aware of the multinationals in the country that are always telling us that they need people with better skills, science subjects, maths and that we are not fit for purpose. One told us boldly lately that if it hopes to create 400 jobs, 300 of them will be filled by people from their home country. That is a massive pity because the IDA, Enterprise Ireland the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation have done huge work to secure these investments. It is not much good, however, if we cannot employ our own people. The Constitution enshrines the right to employment and the right to be able to work and earn a living to provide for our families.

I must put on record my appreciation of the work done by the VECs. When the newcomers arrived in our country - I do not like calling them foreign nationals - they were welcome. The first bodies involved in training them on language courses and literacy were the VECs. They did tremendous work on a shoestring budget. A huge voluntary effort was made by literacy and language skill teachers. I know people in Cahir who take in five or six foreign nationals every couple of months and train them in English and cúpla focal Gaeilge. We cannot throw out the baby with the bath water. We must be capable of recognising what was done at that level and never forget it.

The VECs have laid down the template for continuing and further education. We might have a new education and training board but we should use the VEC model because it has the path worn. There could be some small adjustments but they have been hugely successful in adult literacy training and integration of new comers. That has been seen at the education awards in the last number of years. At one time there would be no one from outside the country but now there are people from different backgrounds getting awards and being involved. It is so sad much of the time that they are here in communities but isolated, not involved or interacting. The VEC and adult literacy organisers, many of them volunteers, did so much work to integrate those people and it was done unseen and unsung. It should be pointed out that it is recognised.

Section 46 on the financing of the boards is vital. Funding is so important now and with the cutbacks being so bad, there must be a facility for borrowing. We were used to signing off overdrafts at the end of the year and then further Estimates would be voted through here. I am not saying it is money from heaven, money is always there but those facilities are carefully thought out and carefully nurtured in the Bill and that is very important.

I have heaped much praise on the VEC but I have one issue of concern. A constituent of mine represents a professional training company that is recognised by the Department of Education and Skills and is fully FETAC accredited. That company believes there is undue interference from the Department of Education and Skills and from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government through Kerry County Council when it wants to advertise training conferences to upskill elected members along with everyone else. It is a professional organisation. Why should any administrator not bring before the boards of the VECs the information the company submits to county councils?

There is something rotten in the State of Denmark because it is not acceptable.

The procurement laws here should be advertised. When a professional company responds to express its interest in the conference, it is up to members as to what conference they attend. There is an obligation on the two Departments and the officials to ensure a fair playing field and that there is not undue interference for whatever reason. However, there is a reason and registered letters and solicitors' letters have been sent to find it but no replies have been received. I ask the Minister and his officials to convey this matter to the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, and the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, to check out this issue because what has happened is not good enough. Given that we have strict procurement regulations, surely individuals and professional companies, fully accredited, are entitled to advertise and sell their wares. As the notice has only to come to the notice of the vocational education committees and county councils, the elected members can decide where they wish to go and the group from which they wish to receive training. I ask that issue be carefully examined and any wrongdoing rooted out.

I commend the Bill and, if possible, will attend Committee Stage and participate fully. I thank the stakeholders who have made submissions. Too often we have public consultations and then changes are made here. We do our best but there is no engagement with the public or stakeholders. An honest attempt has been made by the Department to do so and it behoves the stakeholders to get involved.

I have nothing against Educate Together schools but I do not want any rush to get rid of the Catholic ethos from schools. We have to be a pluralist society and welcome all but I do not want a takeover. Religious orders, while they have been stained with heinous activities by a small minority, have played a major role in nurturing education. It was wonderful that members of all religious denominations sat on the vocational education boards where the discussions were open and transparent. We cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater. We know the service they provided and the amount of work they did at little cost. They did it for love of community and society and did not seek reward. It cost much less to run the schools when it was done by religious orders. We now know the full cost of paying for qualified people. It is a huge transition.

The same considerations apply to the hospitals and the Health Service Executive. When the hospitals were run by matrons they were much better and there were no layers of bureaucracy. I compliment those religious orders. I have worked on projects with various religious orders who were solely committed to the project and then the furtherance of adult education, Traveller projects and so on. I advise that haste be made slowly in order that we do not end up with a system where those people are hurt and cast aside but with a void we cannot fill which costs quite an amount to address.

I will encourage community groups and community representatives to get involved. The selection of community representatives can be difficult as it can and has been abused politically and enables the larger parties on the vocational education committees to be on the education and training boards. That is not right. There should be no political interference. They should be business people who are willing to give of their time and have the experience and vision and are good community representatives. I look forward to a further discussion.

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