Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am delighted to speak on this important legislation. I compliment and congratulate the Minister for bringing it forward in such a short time that she has been in office. I also thank the former children affairs Ministers, Mr. Barry Andrews, who worked tirelessly on this referendum with his staff, and the late Mr. Brian Lenihan, as well as the work of the all-party committee on the amendment chaired by former Deputy, Ms Mary O'Rourke. It is correct we are all focused on the rights and safeguarding of children. We have the sad experience of many cases of child neglect and abuse that have occurred in institutions and family homes over the decades. These were very dark decades in our history.

Anything we can do to rectify any of these wrongs or injustices should be done. Some were heinous and are too terrible to speak about. We must make haste to try to rectify them and ensure they never happen again. However, there is a referendum timetable. As part of the process a judge is to be appointed as head of the Referendum Commission whose name will be announced at a press conference. The Bill will go through the various stages, progressing through the Dáil with late sittings. It will then progress to the Seanad next week, from 1 October. It is important that we are seen to do this.

I am pleased that the proposal does not interfere with Article 41 of the Constitution in any shape or form because it is an important underpinning of the status of the family. In the main, it has served us well and we should try to support, recognise and give credence to families. We should support traditional family units. I am in favour of supporting all family units, but my preference is to try to have the family unit as we knew it, that is, of a man and a woman, a mother and a father, and children and siblings. It is also important to recognise the rights of all children in Article 42A.1. The proposed wording of Article 42A.2 is stronger than that proposed by the all-party committee, which is important. The committee undertook research, carried out investigations and deliberated on the issues involved. It is the Minister's job and that of her advisers to take from the work of the committee, to add to or delete from it. The wording proposed by the committee referred to a physical or moral failure, which was too broad. The wording proposed in this case is more specific and child-centred. It refers to where parents "fail in their duty towards their children to such extent that the safety or welfare of any of their children is likely to be prejudicially affected". That is a clean wording and the Attorney General had to assess it. There will not be interference for the sake of it. There were fears expressed by various organisations that there would be interference willy-nilly with families.

Article 42A.3 is important, too. It allows for the adoption of any child and thereby addresses the child of marriage issue, which is a significant one. I compliment the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs and thank the former Minister of State with responsibility for children, Mr. Barry Andrews, for their work on adoptions from Vietnam. I know many couples throughout the country were pulling their hair out and had given up hope. I realise this was not an easy issue because the previous Minister of State had explained to us that it was both complex and serious. I compliment the Minister on having the arrangement reopened. There are many wonderful couples who, for whatever reason, were not able to have their own children naturally and are keen to adopt. The source of the problem was the Hague Convention, but, thankfully, we appear to have overcome it, which is wonderful news. There is nothing more harrowing than meeting and talking to the couples involved who were traumatised and distressed because they were getting older and various things were happening. Some had one child but wanted another, while some had none.

Article 42A.4.1° refers to the best interests of the child as being paramount and does so strongly by emphasising that this "shall" rather than "may" be the case. The word "may" can be loose. "Shall" is stronger and a better word. That is good advice. Article 42A.4.2° provides that the views of the child shall be taken into account in certain circumstances.

Amendments have been tabled for discussion this evening when we hope to have passed all Stages of the legislation. There has been a brouhaha about it, rightly so, but after it is passed here, it will go before the Seanad and then be brought back here before finally being read into law.

I compliment the Minister on deciding to hold the referendum on a Saturday. All votes should take place on a Saturday or Sunday to allow the greatest number of people to cast their votes, including those who are working or in college. We need a strong vote. As such, it is important that elections are held on a Saturday. It is time we broke the mould. The cosy cartels have held elections on a Thursday or Friday to suit themselves. However, democracy is for the people and should not be the bastion of any one grouping, although this is what it has become. It is right to hold the referendum on a Saturday. This will be only the second time this has taken place, but I hope referendums and elections in the future will be held on a Saturday or Sunday. Many are off on Sunday, when they go to church. They could easily cast their votes on that day. We should encourage those responsible to do this.

Half an hour before I came to the Chamber I received a telephone call from a concerned teacher. It was about a five year old who was waiting to be seen by a speech therapist. He was assessed last January. His parents were told that because of the Croke Park agreement and the taking of maternity leave there was no sign of an appointment being made. The child finds himself in an embarrassing situation in school, as he has a severe problem with his speech. As a parent, I have seen what can be done through speech therapy. Some children might need such a service to help them with a few vowels or syllables, but the service is important. I realise we are in stringent economic times, but there is not much point in having the Statute Book full of legislation if we do not have the will or find the way to ensure resources are made available.

I imagine the Minister will be interested in the motion relating to the Jack and Jill Children's Foundation which was debated in the Seanad last night. The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, replied to the debate which covered the special needs of sick children and children with disabilities in need of home care packages. Senators Mary Ann O'Brien and Jillian van Turnhout did not put it to a vote because the Minister of State assured them that the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, would meet them next week to discuss the matter. They were not looking for one extra cent but simply a transfer of funds. They are seeking to have these children moved from hospitals, where they are not happy. This is distressing for the families involved. It costs nine times more to keep them there than what it would to keep them at home. We, therefore, need a seismic shift in the way the HSE and the Department of Health work. These figures have not been verified independently; however, the Minister was asked to have them verified. How much could be saved in the HSE budget if the proposed changes were made? I referred to the case of a particular child. Thousands of children are waiting for orthodontic treatment, to see eye specialists and so on. There will be greater problems if they are not seen to now. The system is choked. We can pass legislation on a weekly basis, but if we do not have the proper systems in place to support, regulate, stimulate and encourage, we are going nowhere. I realise the Minister inherited the system, but we must consider what can be done to rectify the position. Some dreadful cases have been brought to my attention at my clinic. One would have to be made of stone not to be distressed at the way some children are being neglected and the circumstances in which some are living. It is appalling.

We cannot continue to operate the social services system in the way it is being operated. However, I commend front-line staff and social workers who make tremendous efforts, but one cannot operate from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday to Friday. The people concerned are at their wits' end and overstretched. There must be a seismic change of emphasis in the way funding is divvied out. There is nothing worse than children being traumatised in the home or unable to gain access to the social workers they need. We need to remedy this because there are predators who want to abuse children and they are not operating from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday to Friday. They are like vermin waiting for their prey. They bide their time and know when the least pressure is applied.

The gardaí would tell me regularly that they have serious issues all the time, especially at night time and on weekend nights when awful situations occur. They are called in to deal with such situations and they have no one to telephone and no place to put these people other than a cell or, where they can get them in, a hospital. That is totally unsatisfactory. There needs to be specialised services within the Garda Síochána to deal with these issues. The Government must look at that. As I stated at the outset, we have the experience of Cloyne, the appalling case in Roscommon where the services were involved, the Ryan report etc.

Garda vetting, a Bill on which was in the House last week, is only as good as the officers handling it. There was no better Garda vetting than when there the local Garda sergeant or garda knew everybody in the community and could give a reference at any time. There is now a central bureau. I do not know how they think it is so good. I do not believe it is. If they do not have local knowledge and knowledge of a person, they will not get proper references and make proper recommendations. In addition, the delays in the bureau are considerable. Getting back to the Bill, if the Government does not put those services in place - as I stated, I am not looking for extra funding - there is no point in passing this constitutional amendment. That is not looking for extra resources; it is looking for a change of resources. I do not want to refer to the disputes in the Department between the senior Minister and his former junior Minister, but there must be clear lines of divison. I am told, although I am not certain of this, that the Minister never signed off on the delegated powers to the former Minister of State. There must be clear divisions. Deputy Fitzgerald, as a first ever Cabinet Minister in this area, has the powers, and I wish her well on that, but she must follow the money in the Department, cut out half the bureaucracy, red tape and administration, let the services flourish out to where they are needed and take on enough social workers. The Department must take on sufficient specialist child psychologists. I am not saying to flood the area, or that we have such funding because we have not, but the Minister should ensure the resources are at the front line where they are needed, not in administration, back room offices and whatever else. I am not criticising all the public servants either, but I am saying that there must be a seismic change across Departments. They are there to service the people, not to be self-serving or anything else. Particularly in the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, the Minister must ensure that all children are cherished equally.

With families, second chance programmes can be given for whatever reason. One can give them to the parents as well. If there is a small issue of neglect, carelessness or whatever, there are the practicalities to consider as well where a social worker, garda or whoever else will have to sit down and have a chat with those concerned. Even in the courts, they have to do it. One should give them a second chance because, unfortunately, due to the changes in life as we know it, and the amount of pornography and whatever else is coming in on the Internet, there are considerable challenges for young children, teenagers and older people. There are significant issues that did not exist when I was a young fellow when it was different altogether. Those pressures are there as well. It is shocking to note that, according to Department figures, Childline received 1,240 calls on Christmas Day last. One wonders how many children are not properly literate and properly able to communicate who do not even know that Childline exists.

There are significant issues to deal with and this is an honest effort to deal with them, but the resources must follow and services must be streamlined. There must be a balanced ongoing assessment of how this legislation is bedding in, without having over zealous staff interfering, as I stated earlier, for any minor reason. I honestly believe that legislation is only as good as the follow through. One can have the best team there but if they do not get the support and if they are not trained properly, they will not deliver the goods.

There are groups which, while they might be quite small, have concerns about this Bill and they should be listened to. They cannot be dismissed as fanatics, cranks or anything else. They are out there and in touch with people, and have concerns or fears, and there must be proper discussion. I hope the Referendum Commission keeps it simple and does not confuse the public. The timescale is quite tight but it can be done. As I said, it must be done. We do not want to confuse anybody.

As I stated, the Garda vetting must be checked out. The bureau must be understanding and the only way to understand the matter is to have the knowledge.

The key objectives in this Bill are good. The reference to "no discrimination" is important also. As I stated, it is now a different Ireland. There are multiple nationalities and they all must be welcomed. I call them "newcomers". There are multiple disciplines of religion, ethnic beliefs and whatever, and they all must be understood and dealt with by the law in an understanding, fair and meaningful way. There are all kinds of barriers, for instance, language. I could visit a school with the tidy schools competition 15 years ago and there would be only one nationality but now one could find 12 or 15.

I am delighted that the fundamental Article 41 was not interfered with because in my opinion that is sacrosanct. I am delighted with the fairly straightforward articles here and the capable use of wording. I am no barrister or adviser on words, but I think this is a fairly sensible wording that provides the latitude to take whatever action is needed. I am delighted that the word "exceptional" is included because it applies only in exceptional circumstances. Where there are such exceptional circumstances, there must be swift action, the matter must be dealt with, and the Department cannot allow ongoing sagas such as arose in the Roscommon case and others. I commend the Bill to the House.

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