Eoghan Murphy (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)

I thank the Minister for bringing this Bill to the House before the summer recess. It is an important Bill, and it is important that we get it right. I often receive complaints about the length of time it takes to bring legislation before the House and see it through, and I have made such complaints, but when it comes to this legislation it is incredibly important that we take the required time to examine every detail of it because once we are finished with it, it is the law of the land. We must be certain that the intended consequences of the Bill and what we want to achieve with it are realised in the real world, so to speak, when it is put into practice. It is necessary, therefore, to have the many days of debate we have had to bring it to Committee Stage, where we will scrutinise every aspect of it, because once it leaves this House there is nothing more we can do with it. It is then the law of the land.

This is the fourth day of debate on the Bill but I regret that because of events this week and last week I have not been able to listen to all contributions. As the Bill is so important I would like to have been present for all of the contributions, and I apologise if I go over ground that has been covered by previous speakers. I would like to take up Deputy Phelan's point about the personal element of this for elected representatives. It is not something I imagined I would be involved with when I was elected to Dublin City Council in 2009, but I would call to people's front doors and they would break down in tears in front of me. People come into my office in Ranelagh to talk through their problems and are not able to finish because they are overwhelmed by emotion and the difficulties they are facing. They then write to me because they are embarrassed that this has happened and apologise to me. I then feel terrible embarrassment that they feel that way. We are not trained to deal with these situations. As Deputy John Paul Phelan said, we are elected as councillors and Deputies, but we are not trained as counsellors to deal with such difficult problems. However, we are at the coalface because we are public representatives and because we were elected by the people, they come to us with a plethora of issues and problems. While it is difficult for us, we can only imagine how difficult it must be for those facing a terrible debt burden and the effect it has on their lives and ability to be happy.

I was lucky in that regard in that I was not in the country for the worst of the boom years between 2004 and 2008. I did not take out a mortgage and while I have debt, I am just about managing it, unlike many of my friends and peers who are in difficult situations because they bought at the height of the boom and subsequently they or their partner lost their job. All of a sudden their mortgage repayments began to look impossible and perhaps they were borrowing against the house for other things. It might not have been wise, but they did it and are now are in difficult situations. Young people of my age are looking ahead and finding it very difficult to see a future or their way out. That is the type of situation we are trying to address. The Bill is aimed at those who need help, have taken responsibility for their situation and now want to find a way out of it. We must ensure we can provide a way out of their difficulties.

The Bill concerns personal debt and insolvency, but the context in which we debate it is important because when we look at the national economic picture, the country is insolvent and currently in a deficit management arrangement. In anticipation of the debate on the Bill I asked the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, for information last week. As part of an experiment, I asked him to divide the deficit and the general Government debt among the population. He informed me of the following figures which are worth repeating in this context. At the end of June the national debt stood at €131.9 billion. Given an estimated population of just under 4.6 million, an individual's share of the national debt outstanding at the end of June was just under €28,750. That is the figure for every single person in the State, as recorded in the census last year, not just those earning a wage. If we look at the deficit for this year alone, it was estimated at €18.655 billion. Again, if we take the population to be 4.6 million, an individual's share of this year's Exchequer deficit is approximately €4,065. Again, that is the figure for every single person in the State, not just those earning a wage, and it is wholly separate from the banking debt and legacy debt; it is the figure for day-to-day borrowings for this year just to keep the show on the road. Let us look at the issue in household terms. If a person is working and he or she has a stay-at-home spouse and three dependants, it represents approximately €20,000 in borrowings by that person for this year alone before he or she even begins to consider his or her own personal circumstances and the debts the family might have in terms of household bills, a failed business or difficult mortgage. That is the situation facing the State and the context in which we are having the debate on the Bill.

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